PLEASE HELP - DART in Denver did PPI and they missed rust and more

[Baezventures]

A friend of mine who is an Army veteran, hired DART in Denver as a fiduciary to do a PPI for 964 Targa, at a price of almost $50K, so this was not a bargain basement deal. He was buying out of state prior to shipping to CA a couple of weeks ago. DART offered a checklist (see attached) which including checking for rust, body damage, etc. DART missed rust (see attached pictures) and failed to secure the bottom plate when checking for oil leaks causing further damage. These were glaring issues that would have been easy to spot by any competent mechanic and now he is in for thousands of dollars to repair the problems missed by DART. The shop's owner simply does not care.

Upon confronting them, the owner of DART says it is not worth it to him to correct the problem. Please see the pictures of the DART checklist and the pictures attached of what DART missed. I am so disappointed in DART.

The car had rust in front of windshield bubbling up but they checked RUST - OK. They were supposed to check for oil leaks and when we go the car the bottom cover went flying off due to being unsecured after the check. The car had a cracked decklid that they did not disclose.

I don't have a copy of the original ad but it was presented as a lower mileage 964 with original paint and one ding in the rear bumper and a scratched rim.

Has anyone run into this with PPI? What do you recommend if you pay for a PPI and they miss glaring issues prior to purchase and you rely on them to help provide confirmation? I know there is such a thing as negligent inspection.

[76FJ55]

Sorry I can't be of much assistance, but wanted to let you know that none of the "attached" images are visible.

[Baezventures]

[69porsche]

Was DART on the hook to fix these issues or just identify them for a PPI?

[Matt Monson]

Post the original listing of the car for sale.

[Baezventures]

DART was to identify the issues listed on the checklist. Of course, that did not happen based on the obvious issues depicted in the photos.

[jlex]

Is there a written contract between your buddy and DART? I'd read it over to see what your recourse is.

[juanbenae]

a thorough PPI is in the hands of the administer, but the buyer needs to be diligent. was you buddy provided their bullet point sheet you link prior to the PPI? I can't read what you've linked it sideways and small font. was the car a customer's of the shop?


not all PPI's are created equal and you don't know of a bad one unless you've experienced a good one. I got one done out of state and I knew I was fuched when they called me to see if I wanted the oil and filter changed... seems legit. only I asked them if they were going to cut the filter open to look it over and what did the oil look like. he stated the filter cutting would be extra and he was not sure what the state of the oil was.!!! I knew the oil was due per the sellers declaration and he ended up having the service done on my behalf.

I was lucky in that the car and the seller were better than the "PPI" id paid for. plus, the cost of the PPI should be a hint. id ask more questions of the $200 PPI than the $500 one....

[Jonny042]

Not to say that the ppi couldnt have been a little more detailed (I'd be annoyed too), but those are pretty minor things. Yes that's rust but it's not even close to being serious. I'd advise your buddy to forget about it and enjoy his new car. If he was expecting perfection or paid a premium for what was supposed to be a 100 point car maybe he should take it up with the seller if it was misrepresented.

[Jonesy78]

The last line on the inspection form pretty much says it all: "No guarantee is expressed or implied."

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Jonny042

but those are pretty minor things.

Worthy of note, though.

[manbridge 74]

Did they provide good pictures?

Been in the game awhile. At our place the technician is mainly looking for safety issues and problems that will be an issue within a year. The sales side handles all the questions about paint thickness, past wreck/service history etc. It’s hard to catch everything in an hour or two. I am amazed at what people buy practically sight unseen.

It does sound like they missed a few things here, the under body panel coming off is not a good sign...

[AG81]

I have said it before and I will say it again...... always without exception go see what you are buying. End of conversation. If you can't go better expect things like this to happen. I have heard hundreds of stories like this........

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by AG81

I have said it before and I will say it again...... always without exception go see what you are buying. End of conversation. If you can't go better expect things like this to happen. I have heard hundreds of stories like this........

This. I go to look at the overall condition of the vehicle, including paint and body. I pay for a ppi to give me mechanical condition including things like leakdown, engine and gearbox leaks, brakes, suspension, tires, etc.

I reiterate my request for the ad. I want to know how the seller presented the car. If this is some $25k bargain car my expectations are different than a $50k garage queen. The ppi tells me little without knowing that the buyer should be expecting in a car.

[Starless]

I have nothing to add, but how is Baezventures Join Date Dec. 1969?

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

If this is some $25k bargain car my expectations are different than a $50k garage queen.

Unfortunately the vast majority of people selling $25K bargain cars seem to think they have $50k garage queens and present them as such. Which means go look at it for yourself like Matt says.

But, on the bright side, your buddy has a new 911 to play with. And fixing the little things that are wrong with it is part of the fun. Hopefully the next repaint is of a higher quality than the last and that rust will be wiped out for good.

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Worthy of note, though.

Agreed.

It occurs to me if the shop really was acting as a fiduciary then they would stand to lose whatever cut they were getting on the deal if it fell through? So then maybe getting them to perform a ppi wasn't the smartest move.

If the ppi was just a matter of course in a larger picture of actually acting as a fiduciary then I wouldn't expect it to be a "real" ppi that would compare to having one done by an actual 911 specialist.

There's a lot we don't know here.

[T77911S]

Originally Posted by Jonny042

Unfortunately the vast majority of people selling $25K bargain cars seem to think they have $50k garage queens and present them as such. Which means go look at it for yourself like Matt says.

But, on the bright side, your buddy has a new 911 to play with. And fixing the little things that are wrong with it is part of the fun. Hopefully the next repaint is of a higher quality than the last and that rust will be wiped out for good.

but it is being surprised vs told of issues that may be the thing. at least it is for me.
I would rather ne told whats wrong than find out after you buy it, especially if you ask or have a PPI done.

like me, I was TOLD my 930 had RUF PC's in it. it does not. I don't think the PO lied on purpose, I believe he thought that based on posts he made in the past. it still took me a while to get over it and I still got the car for a fair price.
he did tell me it had an issue at cruise which was fine.

shops that do PPI's are not in the deal for a cut, they get paid up front.

shops will have a disclaimer that they are not responsible for THEIR mistakes.
much like if something is stolen out of the car while at their shop.
go get a house inspection before you buy one then discover you have termites. you wont get $$ out of the inspector

oh!! here is another good one.
a contractor had a company come locate cables here at work. I even told the guy where they were. needless to say one got cut, one that I specifically told him about.
the cable locating company did NOT pay to have to repaired. they had a disclaimer that they are not responsible for any cut cables.

[Baezventures]

There is such a thing as negligent inspection. You pay for a service and they are acting as a fiduciary, no different than when you buy a house and the home inspector misses issues on the roof. Would you be OK with it? If in the check box it says rust as an example and DART checks OK. Then the owner of DART says it's not worth it to him to correct the problem. What does that say about how they care about customers? Honestly, if you say you to a PRE PURCHASE INSPECTION and have criteria you count on and then they also fail to secure the under pan which shakes loose, is that OK?

[Baezventures]

And for the record, the car went for close to $50K. I don't have a copy of the original ad but it was presented as a lower mileage 964 with original paint and one ding in the rear bumper and a scratched rim.