PLEASE HELP - DART in Denver did PPI and they missed rust and more

[Matt Monson]

Are you sure they even removed the underpan? Their form says no part of the carcwas disassembled. Your guy didn’t even pay for a leakdiwn on it, so there really isn’t a reason to remove it.

[ADDvanced]

That is not MINOR rust. I guarantee once you dig into that, it's going to be a lot more widespread, and it's probably hiding a lot of other places as well.

[69porsche]

Originally Posted by Baezventures

And for the record, the car went for close to $50K. I don't have a copy of the original ad but it was presented as a lower mileage 964 with original paint and one ding in the rear bumper and a scratched rim.

Sounds similar to all listing, I am not sure that's out of the ordinary and then for those interested, that's where you go into the weed's of questioning everything and anything associated with car....Does your friend have a email trail of what he was asking about the car, besides a PPI.....really in depth questions

[Baezventures]

69 Porsche. Yes, he does a full email trail. West Point Military Academy Officer and very detail oriented.

[Flat Six]

I wouldn't pay $50K for anything without seeing it myself . . . .

[smokintr6]

I think in the case of missing obvious things that it's reasonable to ask for the cost of the PPI back, or some portion of it.... But it's not like you can have the shop that did the inspection pay for the repair of the car.

[yelcab1]

I wouldn't trust a ppi unless I did it myself.
I wouldn't pay $50K for a car without seeing it.
I wouldn't pay $50K for a 964 which I could not get rid of 10 years ago for 18K (unless it's a RSA)
but all that is academic at this point. Good luck getting the cost of the ppi back, that is not going to happen. As for the rust, fix it and call it lesson learned.

[KTL]

Agreed that the only thing you could possibly get out of this is the cost of the PPI back. While there's apparently some glaring things they missed, they know their disclaimer relieves them of any major responsibility.

I agree with ADDvanced that the rust pictured is not minor. It may seem minor on the surface to the untrained eye. The rust doesn't start from the outside and work its way in. It's the reverse of that. Seeing rust like that around the windshield tells me there's very high potential for much worse rust elsewhere in places like the front fender joints, headlight buckets, fuel filler recess, lower rocker panels,.......

What's lurking below in the windshield channel is the bad stuff and I can unfortunately guarantee you it will be much worse than what you see right now. I've done three old 911 windshields, two being garage queens (one a glass-out repaint) and the third a cheap repaint racecar. All of them had varying amounts of rust in the channel with none on the surface. The racecar actually had rust in ALL FOUR window openings but that didn't really surprise me given the mediocre quality repaint.

​That said, I agree it's pretty crappy that rust is a checklist item and something as glaring as the windshield rust isn't called out. It's not like rust is uncommon in this location-actually quite the contrary. ​

The PPI is such a crap shoot. You're supposed to be relying on someone with vehicle experience (which DART has with old 911s, and they've been infrequently on Pelican for a long time but their last post was 2014) to identify things that the average Joe Buyer doesn't have the ability to catch. That's the PPI's job. Primarily because nobody's going to let some Joe Buyer individual go wrenching on their car to check things over. Who knows what kind of skill set (lack thereof) Joe Buyer has to be farting around with the car? I know i'm stating the obvious but my point is that therefore the PPI itself needs a pre-purchase inquiry of their list of checks, to ensure that the inspection will cover the things you want it to. juanbenae said it well:

'id ask more questions of the $200 PPI than the $500 one...."

^^^ Yes indeedy to that but even the $500 PPI needs to be questioned before and after to ensure the potential buyer is aware of what is to be checked and to what level of detail. So after agreeing to the PPI and having it done, buyer should question it and not take it at face value. That is sometimes easier said than done (some shops can take offense to your questioning but so be it since you ARE paying them for their service) but you must question it to ensure you get a feel for how well the car was inspected.

As the others said, if you don't visit the car or the for sale ad doesn't have numerous detailed pictures? Your only insight into the finer details of the car is the PPI guy!

Good luck but you don't really have much recourse here.

[john walker's workshop]

"Please help". What do you expect us to do?

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

"Please help". What do you expect us to do?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=74GdZs2Ilk4

[Coastr]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

"Please help". What do you expect us to do?

The most relevant question here.

Your friend ended up with a bad deal. Happens every day.

Options :
1) continue to post in forums and expend mental energy. Harass business owner. Possible, but low probability outcome : refund of partial ppi cost.
2) sell car and take loss if you can’t find anyone to pay same price. Probability of outcome : high that loss will be experienced, but closure is certain
3) suck it up, learn from experience and live with or fix car. Probability of outcome : 100%

You’re never going to get made whole on this deal even if you got it to the highest court around. That’s the starting point to accept and work from.

The West Point grad will know all about plans and dealing with changes to plan. Buying a used Porsche is, and can never be, a risk free experience.

[john walker's workshop]

Still want to know how you got a joined date of 1969??

[High Life]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

"Please help". What do you expect us to do?

Maybe move the discussion to the appropriate forum?

Marketplace anyone?

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by High Life

Maybe move the discussion to the appropriate forum?

Marketplace anyone?

That’s where we discuss the value of cars. We haven’t seen enough pictures or details to make such an assessment.

[mrrolleyes]

i bought my porsche site unseen like an idiot...

i spoke to the shop that did the PPI prior to sale and they were not even close when the car arrived.
most of what they spoke of was 100% wrong.

i learned my lesson the hard way like may others.

[Flojo]

Originally Posted by Flat Six

I wouldn't pay $50K for anything without seeing it myself . . . .

rule #1 it is.

[kyngfish]

For everyone giving this dude a hard time, I think what he's asking is for advice from anyone who has had a similar experience, and in an air-cooled Porsche forum whose first advice is getting a PPI, I think it's a fair thing to ask. In the end, maybe there's nothing he can do, but he doesn't deserve scorn.

A bunch of people have bought cars from far away and hired garages to do a PPI. It's easy to look back 20/20 and name the 100 things they should have done, but I think it's a fair expectation for a PPI to highlight rust spots and give an opinion, it seems fairly clear that Dart did a shoddy job, whatever our personal opinions about how "bad" that rust is.

As someone mentioned on here, I'd look and see if there was a contract. The "no guarantee" statement at the bottom doesn't preclude obvious disregard or negligence. I'm not a lawyer, but I'd probably consult one.

First step for me is to get a real PPI from someone reputable that can tell you the actual condition of the car and the repairs needed. Make copies of the original listing, and any kind of communication from Dart about the PPI, then consult a legal professional.

[tmaull]

I agree. I think this is pretty lousy workmanship that we can all now avoid thanks to this post. It’s a bummer that it happened and that the only recourse is probably just warning others.

[964TargaC2]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

Still want to know how you got a joined date of 1969??

He's backdated

[911SauCy]

If your West Point "friend" is so detail oriented, he should have bought a small insurance policy called an airline ticket, flown out, and seen the car for himself.

There's nothing complaining to this board is going to do to remedy the buyer's poor decisions...

Unless your single goal is to defame DART, then it's apparent you're working toward that.