I want them all

[Mike964_61]

So, little background I have had my 964 C2 for a couple years. I love aircooleds and also have 61 spilt window bus. I am ready to buy another 911, not getting rid of the 964 just looking to add. Problem is I want so many of the variants. But, I think I have it dialed down to three.
What I want like 70-73 911 T that I can hot rod a little, backdated car with good power to weight, and 996/997 GT3.
Purpose of the vehicle would be to drive it spirited on the weekends with friends and go to some PCA events and cars and coffee. No track days, but roads around me for the most part in good shape.
Here is my thought process, my 964 is hopped up as much as it can be without tearing the motor apart. Cup exhaust, wong chip, lighten fly wheel, coilovers. I wonder if a back date or long hood car would be to similar to what I currently have? Maybe the GT3 way would be the way to go since its so different? Also, the thought that all GT cars are going turbo come 2020.
Would like to hear peoples thoughts that have own the cars I mention and thoughts on my logic I have mention. Many thanks Pelicans.

[tdw28210]

Can't help you much on the GT3 front, only have ridden in one on the track. As for the 70-73 hotrod it is important to know about the 915 transmission. If you have not driven one, they can feel "ponderous" compared to the g50 ('87 on) and later transmissions. You can certainly spend $$ to address that "feature". I really don't mind it, but some people HATE it. Might be a good time to buy, as longhood hotrod cars seem to be cooling in prices right now. Nothing like the 930 price compression, but still a cooling (see the Marketplace forum for more discussion).

I really dig lightweight longhood hotrods. If you can find one with a 3.6 swap you can probably save your money on the GT3 purchase. You won't feel the need.

[Mike964_61]

twd28210 thanks for your response. I have during a couple early 3.2's with well sorted 915's and they were fine. I have driven one that was on the frits and it was a little much. Felt like I was searching for gears at times. Yeah I noticed a "cooling" as well. One reason I was also considering it. Maybe I will go 930 if they cool off enough when I am ready. However, I am more of NA kind of guy. I am more of classic car guy so I am leaning towards the older stuff. I just know it more. But, I just wondering if I am missing something with the newer GT cars.
Anyone else have any thoughts?

[jackb911]

Mike, I've owned most every iteration of air cooled Porsches since my first one 46 years ago. For decades I was an air-cooled snob. In 2001 I bought a nearly new 2000 996 and hated it so much that I sold it within 3 months and returned to air-cooled 911's, a 993 and then two G50 Carreras.

In 2013 a long-time Porsche friend offered to swap my '87 Carrera backdated-to-a-'74 RS 3.0 for his pristine 997 GT3 (plus some cash on my end). One test drive is all it took.

All I can say is do not test drive a 997 GT3 unless you plan on buying one. A 415 HP bulletproof Mezger engine in a slightly over 3,000 lb. 911 with incredible roadholding and stunning looks. In my normally aspirated 911 world, it does not get any better than this and I believe the 2007-11 997 versions of the GT3 are the best of the best for a number of reasons too lengthy to go into here.

[Tippy]

They really did nail the looks on the 997. But, the 991 is beautiful too!

[1979-930]

I'm having the same internal debate with the 74 I purchase to Hot Rod.
I'll have 07 GT3 money into it, including car cost, if I build it the way I want to.
So there is:
1. The money debate.
2. Classic Vs. Modern style.
3. Love Vs. Hate projects. It depends on the day and task at hand.
4. Will I even drive another car enough to justify having it?
I love driving the 930 so much I only drive my Mustang on track days now. I'm too nervous in the 930 to have fun or cut decent times. I'll probably feel the same way in a GT3.
I think the 74 will be more fun as a track toy/hot rod, but now I'm back to the cost debate.

Ahhh, I'm no help...

[Mike964_61]

Originally Posted by jackb911

Mike, I've owned most every iteration of air cooled Porsches since my first one 46 years ago. For decades I was an air-cooled snob. In 2001 I bought a nearly new 2000 996 and hated it so much that I sold it within 3 months and returned to air-cooled 911's, a 993 and then two G50 Carreras.

In 2013 a long-time Porsche friend offered to swap my '87 Carrera backdated-to-a-'74 RS 3.0 for his pristine 997 GT3 (plus some cash on my end). One test drive is all it took.

All I can say is do not test drive a 997 GT3 unless you plan on buying one. A 415 HP bulletproof Mezger engine in a slightly over 3,000 lb. 911 with incredible roadholding and stunning looks. In my normally aspirated 911 world, it does not get any better than this and I believe the 2007-11 997 versions of the GT3 are the best of the best for a number of reasons too lengthy to go into here.

So you have been in a GT3 since 2013? Do you have an aircooled car on the side? Or have owned once since you went GT3?

1979-930
See I feel the exact opposite if I had a GT3 on track. I think I would trust the car more. Also, you are correct building a hot rod will cost GT3 money.

Jackb911 your enthusiasm for the GT3 is not uncommon. I generally get the same response from those owners. Can I ask you how you use your GT3? I ask because I don't plan on tracking it if I get it. But I will definitely put through its paces on the street when I can. I would use it for spirited driving with friends and cars and coffee and PCA events. Any chance you are doing that with yours? If so is the ride manageable for street use? I hear both schools of thought on this, some say its fine, others say its terrible. My current 964 setup is very aggressive and setup for the track but I only use it on the street. So it is really rough ride. I can handle it. I just want to hear your prospective.

[jpnovak]

If you want the car for C&C and backroads go for the early car. Don't even worry about modifying it. Just drive it.

The only way I found respect for the newer cars is to get them on the track where you can explore the limits safely. You will be going much faster than you will in an older car. The new ones are all Porsche and operate at "get you in serious trouble" speeds. And yes, this is super addictive. But I admit I don't have fun driving them on the street they feel large and heavy at low speeds.

[Mike964_61]

Originally Posted by jpnovak

If you want the car for C&C and backroads go for the early car. Don't even worry about modifying it. Just drive it.

The only way I found respect for the newer cars is to get them on the track where you can explore the limits safely. You will be going much faster than you will in an older car. The new ones are all Porsche and operate at "get you in serious trouble" speeds. And yes, this is super addictive. But I admit I don't have fun driving them on the street they feel large and heavy at low speeds.

But my issue is I feel my 964 kind of checks that box already. Granted it doesn't weigh in at 2400lbs like an 70 T. But my car is not close to stock either and weighs in wet at 2900lbs and roughly like 250hp to the wheels. Descent hp to weight. Just concerned if I went with an early car would I have two things that are very close together? If so I don't want that. I want to different experiences with both cars.

[jpnovak]

An early car is way different experience. light and nimble and not refined. Even a somewhat stripped 964 will feel luxurious in comparison. There is tons of familiarity between the two but, IMO, the detailed experience is very different.

[Mike964_61]

Originally Posted by jpnovak

An early car is way different experience. light and nimble and not refined. Even a somewhat stripped 964 will feel luxurious in comparison. There is tons of familiarity between the two but, IMO, the detailed experience is very different.

Thanks for the insight. Earliest car I have had chance to drive is Gbody. No one close to me that I know has a long hood car stock or hot rodded.

[tdw28210]

Originally Posted by Mike964_61

Thanks for the insight. Earliest car I have had chance to drive is Gbody. No one close to me that I know has a long hood car stock or hot rodded.

Yeah, you gotta drive one of those before you write any checks.

[jackb911]

Originally Posted by Mike964_61

So you have been in a GT3 since 2013? Do you have an aircooled car on the side? Or have owned once since you went GT3?


See I feel the exact opposite if I had a GT3 on track. I think I would trust the car more. Also, you are correct building a hot rod will cost GT3 money.

Jackb911 your enthusiasm for the GT3 is not uncommon. I generally get the same response from those owners. Can I ask you how you use your GT3? I ask because I don't plan on tracking it if I get it. But I will definitely put through its paces on the street when I can. I would use it for spirited driving with friends and cars and coffee and PCA events. Any chance you are doing that with yours? If so is the ride manageable for street use? I hear both schools of thought on this, some say its fine, others say its terrible. My current 964 setup is very aggressive and setup for the track but I only use it on the street. So it is really rough ride. I can handle it. I just want to hear your prospective.

Nope, I've never tracked it. Years ago I used to autocross 911's and ended up with a vintage Formula Vee track car but I eventually had my fill of competitive events, not to mention the cost factor. And no air-cooled Porsches since the GT3 arrived. Just a '69 Camaro SS street machine that looks stock but isn't. It reminds me of my misspent youth.

Unless in Sport mode, the ride of an unmodified GT3 is good for street driving as long as potholes and rough spots are avoided. However, the GT3 ride height is very low and you have to be very careful entering and exiting some driveways and parking lots in order to preserve the rubber front spoiler lip. I had mine raised 20mm for that reason but it is still very low as shown in the photo.

There are some really great curvy "spirited driving" roads with elevation changes not too far from where I live. I am not a very aggressive driver these days so a GT3 is probably an overkill car. However, driving in stop-and-go Atlanta traffic is not the car's strong suit as the clutch is pretty heavy and the shifter reminds me of the bolt action on a WWII German Mauser K98 rifle - VERY direct, zero slop, requires a firm hand. GT3's were meant for the track and are a very different driving experience than a regular 997 Carrera/Carrera S.

I am retired so I have never used the GT3 as a daily driver. It is the most expensive car I've ever owned so I am extremely careful when and where I drive it. The routine maintenance is very straightforward and since I was an aircraft mechanic in my Army days in the '70's, 90% of the work that has been done during my ownership has been in my garage. I recently did a 40K mile full maintenance that included changing all the fluids and replacing the original brake rotors and pads with new ones. Pretty easy, no problems.

The analogy I like to use with the 997 GT3 is that it is to a standard 997 Carrera/Carrera S what a 1973 Carrera RS 2.7 is to a 1973 911S. It is a different animal and is a very special car that just might be destined for future collectability as the later 991 versions do not have the race-based Mezger engine or Getrag G50-derived gearbox and the 997 GT3 arguably is the "right size". Park a 997 beside a 991 and you will see what I mean.

Just drive one. Then you will probably understand.

[damienb]

I owned a 996.2 GT3 for a couple of years.

I loved the car. I totally agree with Jack in that it’s a very different beast to the Carrera’s of the same vintage. They are razor sharp and all the controls are firm, direct and absolutely no slop anywhere – I love all that. I think the Mezger connection if very cool too and I also agree in future it could be the 2.7 RS of its time (maybe). I like a firm ride, and while it can be crashy on poor roads I found it acceptable most of the time. I liked that it was loud on the inside. I took the front lip off for some precious extra clearance at the front and never reinstalled it.

It’s built for the track and that’s where it shines. I really enjoyed the occasions when I tracked it, but most of my driving was done on the street however. My biggest issue with it as a street car is that the limits are soooo high. A spirited drive in my current SC is a lot of fun. The same speed in the GT3 is a doddle. You’ll need to drive one and work out if you can enjoy it at speeds somewhere less than ‘lock him up and throw away the keys’. Ultimately that’s why I sold it.

Never driven an early car so I'm no help there. I don't see the point in a back-date given what you already have.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

I've owned or driven a lot of different 911s. My personal favorite, because I'm a weight freak, is my 73 with a 3.2, headers, SW chip and muffler weighing in at 2174 lb. Most fun 911 I've ever owned or driven and that includes an 01 996TT which I can only describe as the fastest Camry on the planet. A mind-meltingly fast car that can go around corners at insane speed is a great car, just not very fun to drive.

YMMV.

[Speed metal]

I want them all too.
Not all at once... Still working on keepers.
Yeah its a real possibility to spend new Porsche money on an old one... I haven't owned an early car but have had a 3.2 Carrera and currently have a 2.7 midyear car. Both fun! My 914 is possibly the most fun...
I did drive a 996 turbo, that turned into a 2018 GTS haha! Love that car.
Drive as many as possible, all great, none are bad cars.

[Mike964_61]

Thank you all for you insight. You all make very good points.

[NYNick]

I want them all too. I sold a 09TT because it was a waste for me to own and drive 1000 miles per year. Just too much car for the street.

I'm not buying any new or modern cars (or Porsches) anymore. Being retired I don't require daily transportation and when it snows or we travel, I just take the wife's Subaru.

Having said that, the three cars you're comparing are chalk and cheese. None is like the other. I personally prefer the old smell and raw nature of the long hoods. Just fast enough to thrill you, just dangerous enough to kill you. Plus, you can work on them. Try working on that GT3.

Nice problem to have, BTW! GL!

[Mike964_61]

Yeah I am 25 years from retirement. Congrats on retirement. Also, I live in the south which means its super hot 9 months out of the year and muggy. I will tell you and I know I may get burned for saying this AC is important. One reason why I am leaning towards the GT3. I know there are many ways to an old air cooled a/c work well and the new electric system that has recently come out. So if I get another aircooled car it will have to have one of those electric systems in it. I understand all the cars I mentioned are very different from one another. There is a point to that, I want a different experience. I want something totally different from my 964 and I believe all three of the mention check that bill. Once again thank you for all your input, this great keep it coming.

[Rodsrsr]

One of each and you cant lose.