Yet one more squeaky front end posting...

[donagain1]

Minor pushing down on the front bumper produces annoying squeaks, so I'm guessing the Wishbone/Torsion tube bushings are pretty much shot. It's an '85 which I've owned for 20+ years without touching anything suspension-wise, so they're no doubt originals.

I searched here for squeaky front ends and read through a dozen or more threads on the topic. Some had photos of the culprit bushings, and one of the threads even complained that all the threads as well as the Dempsey "How-to" articles showed replacing the bushings once disassembled, but there was nothing that discussed step X step procedures of how to drop the suspension parts from the car in the first place. The Haynes book is useless, and I don't have a Bentley.

Would someone tell me if the Bentley has a decent how-to procedure for this, or is doing it pretty intuitive once you slither under and start unbolting things. I'll buy a Bentley manual if it's got a Step !, Step 2 kinda guide or is really needed, but would rather save the bucks if it doesn't have much detail. If anyone knows of a thread here dealing with an easy way to remove and replace the suspension parts, please give me the link(s).

Don

[911obgyn]

Get a Bentley manual it is more concise
And you will use it for more than suspension. Don’t cheap out on rubber parts! I did and now 5 years later I have to do it again I used uro rubber bushings and I am going to get Elephant. You will need to replace the lower ball joints, and swing arm bushings.

[Trackrash]

I recall a thread where the sequence of dissasembly was outlined. Maybe someone can find that.

But, before you start, you may want to pinpoint the exact source of the squeek. A hose with one end held to your ear while someone else pushes the car up and down will work.

If you decide to remove your A arms here is the basic sequence.

Jack up and remove wheels and support on jack stands.

loosen and remove the torsion adjusting screw then pull off the torsion bar end cap.

Remove your sway bar.

Disconnect the ball joint from the bottom of the strut.

Pull out the torsion bars.

Remove the front A arm mounts.

[GH85Carrera]

If you have an 85, and the front end has never been updated with new bushings, it is time. Past time. I replaced all the rubber parts on my suspension several years ago with Elephant Racing parts. And all the "while you are in there" parts like turbo tie rods, and new shocks. It was an amazing transformation. And do not cheap out and use the other brands of rubber parts. Get the good stuff, do it right, and ER will not let you down, and it comes with all the tools you will need for the bushing replacement.

[Missed Approach]

FWIW- I did purchase new Dansk Arms from our host in the Spring- solved the issue for me. I had replaced the bushings on the original arms in 2015 (squeak came back!) and also the sway bar bushings in 2016 (squeak came back!) Could not be more pleased. Also- great pricing from our host.

[jlex]

Did you also replace the torsion bars when you installed the new control arms?

[Stutzdriver]

This was my winter project 2 winters ago on my '84 Targa. The entire front suspension comes out as a unit. I found it was a good time to clean the wheel wells and area from the center of the floorpan forward. Cleaned, Power coated and painted everything. New ball joints and all the soft bushings replaced with updated , more durable and stiffer (but not bronze) bushings and mounts.

It all comes out easily and goes back the same way. This winter I'm pulling the rear suspension for the same treatment, the parts are sitting on the workbench. The time for a fresh 4 wheel alignment and ride height adjustment by spring. The car is on stands now so I can tackle things right after the Christmas/New Year holidays.

Its not a difficult job, the old rubber tends to need a good "cooking" with a propane or mapp torch to loosen up the old, mushy rubber parts but the new parts go in the clean parts easily. Setting the ride height can be the challenge but measure the "free angle" of the arms before removal so you have a benchmark going back together. Time for new struts if they aren't replaced, mine were the original FACTORY wet struts form 1984! Replace EVERYTHING you can while its apart and you are good to go for a long time.

I'll see what I have for pictures and post later.

[jlex]

So you guys aren't replacing the torsion bars?

[Mark Salvetti]

Originally Posted by jlex

So you guys aren't replacing the torsion bars?

You don’t need to unless you find the old ones were rubbing and are rusty. But it is a perfect time to upgrade them.

I’ve been collecting parts including some used front and rear torsion bars and sways to go slightly stiffer than stock, Turbo tie rods, new ball joints, etc. Anything that requires a re-alignment. Working with Steve Weiner, will also be buying some custom-valved Bilsteins from him. Doing everything at once.

Note that you probably don’t want to change the front torsion bars to a different size without doing the rear at the same time.

Mark

[Stutzdriver]

I did not replace the torsion bars, cleaned than, polished as needed, repainted and reinstalled in the same position as they came out, no issues.

[donagain1]

Wow, thanks to everyone for their replies, there's a lot of good info in them.

For those who've done the replacement of the bushings or entire wishbone/control arm assemblies, may I ask if you went into it with only your basic instincts of looking at the way things fit together, figuring out what needs to come out first/go back in last, and have it come out right? Or, did you have the manual? Did you have to buy any one-of-a-kind tools, like say a special socket to loosen the retaining nut that holds the shock/strut ball joint to the wishbone? I see they sell something for it, but is it necessary?

As a farsighted old fat dude with a bad back, working under the car on jackstands and slithering into positions to see things is problematic. Can the requisite areas to work in be accessed easily with minimal contortions while on the floor? What I'm getting at is that while I've worked on the car before, I'm not a hobbyist, and don't love it. I'm just a 69 year old retired guy on a budget and don't really want to pay someone to do sh, er, stuff I can do myself. Right now all I care about is getting the squeaks to stop. The car is otherwise fine, and might be up for sale next summer before something more intimidating goes haywire with it. That's why I'm not too enthused over popping out a $C-note for the Bentley repair manual if I don't really need it for this. Are we talking a couple of hours work per side to R&R the control arms, ball joint, etc?

[Jameel]

I had the goose sound in my front end too. Canada goose got stuck in my front fender

Torsion bar was rubbing inside the tube. So last winter I dropped the entire suspension front and rear and completely rebuilt it. Good opportunity to rebuild the steering rack too. It's not difficult.

This thread was enormously helpful. Plus a few phone calls to Chuck and Shannon @ Elephant.

'78 SC Elephant Racing Suspension Rebuild

It was a (mostly) fun and rewarding process. I drove my car 5200 miles to Rennsport this year on suspension and an engine built by me. Pretty satisfying feeling. Good luck.

[74-911]

Originally Posted by donagain1

..... For those who've done the replacement of the bushings or entire wishbone/control arm assemblies, may I ask if you went into it with only your basic instincts of looking at the way things fit together, figuring out what needs to come out first/go back in last, and have it come out right? Or, did you have the manual? Did you have to buy any one-of-a-kind tools, like say a special socket to loosen the retaining nut that holds the shock/strut ball joint to the wishbone? I see they sell something for it, but is it necessary?

Personally, I would highly recommend you spring for the Bentley if you do this. I was 68 when I completely rebuilt the front end on my '74 4 years ago (fairly good physical condition and no real back issues) and I did it over a 3-4 week period in the winter.. no hurry just took my time and lots of pictures. It isn't rocket science at all but you definitely have to pay attention and it does require quite a bit of crawling around under the car.
The front suspension was getting well worn and as I do not plan on selling the 911 I completely rebuild the entire front end:
New ER control arm bushings, new sway bar bushings, new ball joints, new Koni's, wheel bearings, S Calipers rebuilt by PMB, new hard and soft brake lines, new rotors (couldn't turn the old ones), new tank to tunnel fuel lines, turbo tie rods, powder coated the control arms, bump steer kit, etc, etc..

As far as special tools, the usual torque wrenches, impact wrench and BFH about cover it. As far as ball joints, as I didn't want the buy the special socket and my torque wrenches don't go that high, I took the control arms, new ball joints, new wheel bearings and hubs to a nearby Porsche shop and for $50 he installed the ball joints and wheel bearings .. well worth it.

If you are planning on selling ? Tough decision.

This is what a disassembled front suspension looks like:



and this is the part you will be working with:



and like I said, lots of crawling around.... good luck.

[Ayles]

I’d add a roll pin punch to the tools if you plan on replacing the shock inserts. Makes removing/installing the pins a breeze. I did the same as 74-911 in regard to tourquing the ball joint nut. Had the shop that did the post op allignment and corner balancing take care of that.

As a side note, I got my Bently in ebay for $25. Deals are out there.

[chrismorse]

Ready to assemble my dad's 74 front end. This slippery slope started 6 years ago with a sticking front caliper and a bit of an annoying squeak, (worn a arm bushings allowing the torsion bar to "rub" on the cross member). Life got in the way, fixing and selling houses, a few surgeries, moving, replacing concrete for The Lift....
Parts cleaned, blasted, painted or powder coated, new ER rubber, now, all I have to do, is to deal with drivers footwell floor rust, then put everything back together. Rebushing the optional Carrera bars and adding adjustable rear drop links for the obligatory cornerweighting after height and alignment set.

Torsion bars fail when they have significant rust, or more likely, a worn spot, (stress riser), I have heard a few say that bars weaken with age and should be replaced, but will leave that to those with serious shop experience. If your bars are not worn and you aren't wanting to firm things up - re use the old bars.
So, I initially bought a good used bar to replace the worn bar, then, after more reading here, decided to do a mild upgrade on the suspension and moved from basic stock replacement stuff to 21 & 28 t bars with elephant rubber, bilstein HDs, PMB restored M calipers, new discs, bearings, SS lines, sport hardness strut top bushings.
This, of course led to a new master cylinder, rapidly, including a pedal cluster rebuild.
Moving on down the slick slope, I opted to install a Quaiffe "Quick rack and pinion", while doing the steering rack refresh, being somewhat anal, I opted to upgrade to sealed pinion bearings.

Because of the time and expense of corner-weighting and alignment, I think it is most effective to get all of the suspension work done once, not piecemeal.
IMHO, it is "Wise", (one of Wayne's favorite admonitions), to plan your rebuild with a trusted Pro like Chuck, at ER, I felt like he was not only very knowledgeable, but genuinely interested in helping me; not just selling parts.

There seem to be a lot of fat old "phuggers" with 74s, (I'm 70 and sporting 175 pounds of enthusiasm), ? ��
Semi retired, blessed with a recently installed Rotary, asymmetric, 9K lift, I am looking forward to the assembly process.
Chris

[smadsen]

I did the Elephant Racing Poly bronze bushing at least 10 years & 75,000 miles ago to cure the squeaks on my '82. I hit the zerks once a year, the end. R & R the steering rack, tie rod ends, rubber bellows, ball joints, shocks. I used the torsion bars over again, just keep them in the same position as removed. I'm told after 30 years they don't like being twisted the opposite direction.

[donagain1]

Thank you one and all for your input. Going to put it up on stands later today, slither beneath, and do a personal assessment of the PITA quotient.

[wjdunham]

Originally Posted by donagain1

Thank you one and all for your input. Going to put it up on stands later today, slither beneath, and do a personal assessment of the PITA quotient.

It's not really all that that bad a job, I did my '85 in a couple of weeks and a good portion of that was waiting for the re-plating of the parts. Once the A-arms and steering rack are out of the car, ball joints and the springs around the tie-rod rubber boots gets a LOT easier. Getting the steering rack back in without a second pair of hands is probably the most challenging part, otherwise it doesn't require a yoga expert to get everything out and back in again. There are many really good threads here to help with the process.
Bill

[donagain1]

Originally Posted by wjdunham

It's not really all that that bad a job, I did my '85 in a couple of weeks and a good portion of that was waiting for the re-plating of the parts. Once the A-arms and steering rack are out of the car, ball joints and the springs around the tie-rod rubber boots gets a LOT easier. Getting the steering rack back in without a second pair of hands is probably the most challenging part, otherwise it doesn't require a yoga expert to get everything out and back in again. There are many really good threads here to help with the process.
Bill

Aw sheesh, Bill, you went all out there, didn't you? That's the full spectrum of "while you're in there" stuff that many of the posts here rightly recommended. Would you be so kind as to provide a tally of what the stuff you've replaced ended up costing you? Not a detailed accounting, mind you, just a ball park give or take total for the new parts.
Don

[UROParts]

Originally Posted by 911obgyn

And you will use it for more than suspension. Don’t cheap out on rubber parts!

Hi 911obgyn, we now offer an "HD" performance version of Front Control Arm Bushing Kit 901 341 421 02K, which is about 30% more firm than our OEM-firmness bushings. We'd be happy to send you a set at no charge as a warranty replacement, just email "sales at uro parts dot com" (remove spaces) with your purchase info and we'll get them on the way. If anyone else purchased our standard durometer set and is unhappy with the firmness or longevity of the bushings, please contact us for an upgrade to the HD version 901 341 421 02KHD.



We also offer a HD version of the Rear Spring Plate Bushings which is 80-85 Shore A durometer rubber (vs the 55-60 Shore A rubber used for OEM-durometer bushings 911 333 009 00B).