Cost & list of parts to rebuild a 3.0L

[Trackrash]

Well, I should not post this, but I will.

I have owned my car since '78. Rebuilt the motor in '85. Daily driver until '05. That motor went 90k miles and at least a hundred autocrosses and dozens of DEs, and it still runs great.

In '12 I bought an SC motor for $3k. A complete running motor.

I rebuilt it for $3k in parts. Did all the work myself. No machine work needed, except the valve job. I invested $3k in new pistons, cams and misc.

I then sold my old motor for $4k. $6k - $4k, total , plus a year of labor of course.

At around 250 hp and 2100lbs I am very happy with the performance. And that motor will outlive me. I guess I am just very lucky. I should also mention, I have some friends that have been a good resource when needed.

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by Geronimo

yea, but for the price of my 911 I could have several JDM cars that are faster and equally fun.

I grew up with Hondas, and went so far as to roadrace them, ice race them, b series swaps, etc. They are modern consumer goods with all the advantages and disadvantages of such things.

An aircooled 911 may as well be from a different planet. Even though it may be frustrating at times, there really is no substitute.

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by Trackrash

Well, I should not post this, but I will.

Why shouldn't you post this? I think it's an interesting ownership history. Good point about how many 70s or 80s cars you see, too.

How many 70s or 80s hondas or subarus do you see? Even though they probably outsold Porsche 100 to 1.

[Geronimo]

Tracktrash, yea you've been very lucky in the costs you have had.

You can't find a running SC motor for under 10K these days, and a DIY rebuild will cost $10K +

If I could get 250WHP for you prices I would be totally fine with that.

I love my 911, but a well set up Miata or AE86 would be 11/10ths as fun and 1/10th the cost... Albeit with less pedigree.

There is no good reason for a Porsche engine to cost $15K in parts.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Geronimo

There is no good reason for a Porsche engine to cost $15K in parts.

How much does a Ferrari engine cost in parts ?

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by Geronimo

There is no good reason for a Porsche engine to cost $15K in parts.

The reason is, the parts are mostly made in Germany. When you buy OEM parts they come from suppliers Porsche uses, and they aren't cheap.

[Trackrash]

Originally Posted by Geronimo

Tracktrash, yea you've been very lucky in the costs you have had.

You can't find a running SC motor for under 10K these days, and a DIY rebuild will cost $10K +

If I could get 250WHP for you prices I would be totally fine with that.

I love my 911, but a well set up Miata or AE86 would be 11/10ths as fun and 1/10th the cost... Albeit with less pedigree.

There is no good reason for a Porsche engine to cost $15K in parts.

Yeah, I had a couple of things going on. First I found the motor before the values went nuts. Heck, ten years ago, my car was worth something like $7k. A lot of guys were parting out 911s because they were worth more in parts. I bought a lot of parts back then. SC motors were worth $3k any day of the week. Driver SCs were going for $10k.

I made sure the motor I bought had Mahle cylinders. The fact that they were in spec, along with the crank, rods, and case not needing any machine work really made my rebuild less expensive. I have the tools to do the checking, which also helps.

The thing about these p car parts is they are limited production, high quality, precision parts. But you can get them! You should hear the 240z guys whine about parts.

Second, I do ALL my work. Plus I have a couple of friends that are long time P car mechanics and machinists, so any tech support is available to me.

If you think of your car as a long term commitment, you will be ahead in the long run. Yea, miatas can be fun track cars, but what would you rather drive at the track or show up at a cars and coffee in.

The last time I was at a DE there were three cars quicker than mine, in my run group (NASA HPDE 2-3). A turboed miata, a WRX with over boost, and a Venom Challenger. The WRX overheated or blew something and was on the trailer after the second session. The miata was likewise toast after the second session. The Challenger was a dog in the twisties, but DAMN on the straights..... I drove my car the 40 miles to the track and home afterward.

[wjdunham]

Great thread! Here is an example spreadsheet from my 3.2 build. I might have missed a few small items and I paid a local guy Scott Kinder ~$500 to help with the bottom end but did all the rest of the assembly myself. The core motor I bought was very complete including Motronic ECU and harness, intake, exhaust, sheet metal, fan and housing etc... but had some issues. Pistons were useless and the case needed some work so I took the opportunity to have EBS bore and plate the cylinders to 3.4L and purchased new 9.5:1 JE pistons. The motor is pretty close to a zero time build. I need to purchase a chip so add another $500 to the total.

[Geronimo]

I wouldn't trust my SC at a track, or heck even a long road trip. The engine has 3 broken head studs, (German quality). And I wouldn't dare test the freshly rebuild 915 $$$$ with anything more than half throttle stress loads. LOL

With the falling prices of 911's I am stuck in this car for a long time unless I want to realize the loss. I was planning a nice 3.2SS build but at this point I think maybe just fix the head studs and let her sit, while I play with something fun.

I will be at the engine build session this spring in hopes I can learn a bit more about the engine and maybe find a suitable direction for this car.

With the power train in these cars getting north of $30K to freshen up and the values dropping maybe we see some corrections in the future.... lets hope.

I think sometime people like to pay a lot because it makes them feel special or elite or something. I love the Porsche but I have a practical side that see these engine prices for what they are.

I think a Miata with a Honda K24/20 build would be a killer set up and dead reliable all day long.

[mnez]

What is "Zero Timed cam drive system"?

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by mnez

What is "Zero Timed cam drive system"?

Refers to having "zero time" on it.

[911tracker85]

Well, I should not post this, but I will.

you posted on my thread asking why I am now planning an LS3 conversion.....

I will be listing a 78 3.3 turbo motor for sale shortly. disassembled for full rebuild. was modified, twin plug, ported heads ... need to document what I have as I had many parts refreshed already.

anyone interested?

[QueWhy]

Originally Posted by Geronimo

I wouldn't trust my SC at a track, or heck even a long road trip. The engine has 3 broken head studs, (German quality). And I wouldn't dare test the freshly rebuild 915 $$$$ with anything more than half throttle stress loads. LOL

With the falling prices of 911's I am stuck in this car for a long time unless I want to realize the loss. I was planning a nice 3.2SS build but at this point I think maybe just fix the head studs and let her sit, while I play with something fun.

I will be at the engine build session this spring in hopes I can learn a bit more about the engine and maybe find a suitable direction for this car.

With the power train in these cars getting north of $30K to freshen up and the values dropping maybe we see some corrections in the future.... lets hope.

I think sometime people like to pay a lot because it makes them feel special or elite or something. I love the Porsche but I have a practical side that see these engine prices for what they are.

I think a Miata with a Honda K24/20 build would be a killer set up and dead reliable all day long.

Just cut your losses and sell it, why keep something if it doesn’t make you happy? If I’m not mistaken you have the silver car with PMO’s, 16x7&8” Fuchs, and sport seats from BAT right? If I’m right that may be the high water mark for 911sc sales. I remember watching that auction and thinking “someday I want my SC to be this nice” and also “prices really have gone crazy”. It seems like you’ve had buyers remorse since day one, you seem to want modern Japanese reliability and Detroit power, you bought the wrong car.

[Geronimo]

Yea, that's my car, very "cool" car. I just want the performance to match the look. The reliability isn't so bad, I mean it is an old car and I get that.

The biggest rub is my unwillingness to spend metric tons of money for almost no return. I would be happy with the power Turn3 gets out of a 3.2SS build, I just can't justify the cost of that power. LOL

I can't dump it, the car is worth half what I have into it at this point. I'll just keep it, fix the head studs and drive it from time to time. Maybe i'll come into a spare $50K to help make it fun.

[LM3929]

is it possible to post your spreadsheet as an excel file?

Thanks Lorne m.

[kent olsen]

Geronimo

First of all a Porsche is a high performance car right out of the box. Not as a drag racer, although stock to stock it would still be able to beat another comparable car due to the rear engine.

Until you can afford to put more horsepower into you car try my route. Performance is not about horsepower, it's power to weight even in a drag car. I started by removing anything I could, like two to one battery, I haven't run with the spare for 20 years. No power steering or air conditioning. I found some used light weight seats. Fiberglass trunk and ducktail. Little things like door pockets. My car started out around 2350 and now is 2200 lbs.

The other thing is learning to drive a rear engine car. First find someone who can corner balance the car. Then start going to autoxing. You'd be surprised how much corner balancing helps your car. It will be predictable and consistent.

You will be surprised what these old porsches can do

[mepstein]

Originally Posted by Geronimo

Yea, that's my car, very "cool" car. I just want the performance to match the look. The reliability isn't so bad, I mean it is an old car and I get that.

The biggest rub is my unwillingness to spend metric tons of money for almost no return. I would be happy with the power Turn3 gets out of a 3.2SS build, I just can't justify the cost of that power. LOL

I can't dump it, the car is worth half what I have into it at this point. I'll just keep it, fix the head studs and drive it from time to time. Maybe i'll come into a spare $50K to help make it fun.

The "return" is when you drive it. Even my 914 with a tired 1.7 (71 hp when new) gives me tons of smiles per mile because it drives like a Porsche.

[Geronimo]

Kent,

my car currently has SSI's, M&K, PMO's. backdate heat, MSD and recurved ignition. It's a little heavy at 2450, still OEM seats, bumpers, and large batt. I think I have 200#'s I could drop. That might get it to move a bit better.

I just get floored when I see $25-28K for a 300hp engine... That is just insane when the whole car is worth maybe $30K. It would just be throwing money away at that point.

I'll have to find the comfort point between money and dollars. I think if I can get the car down to 2250lbs, and get the power up to 250ish that would be a nice blend, provided the engine doesn't cost more than the car is worth.

[kent olsen]

Geronimo

Our host has a great book on how to rebuild an engine. I ran my 2.7L while i rebuilt a 3.0L I bought out of a wreck. Took me about 8 months. Working on my off schedule. It's just a 245hp twin plug with weber's but super reliable and give's me 9:1 power/weight.

[Geronimo]

yea, I have all the books and will be attending johns engine building class. This year I am redoing my garage in prep for an engine out full rebuild of the 911.

I want to find the best dollar to HP build, I think the 3.2SS gets some nice gains, but the cost hit is very high IMO. I think getting 230-240 RWHP would be great, I am just not sure how much I can gain from a bump in compression, some minor head clean up, and cams, on top of my PMO's or maybe a better sized set of PMO's Maybe I could look at the 3.1L 10.5:1 kit i've seen on here, which would require twin plug and then COP ignition I think with a stand alone ECU.

lol, the money just adds up.... stupids cars.