What is the "plug and play" EFI solution?

[Porchdog]

Until I had trouble last night I thought I was very happy with how my CIS was working.

So I'm back to an itch I have wanted to scratch for years - converting to EFI.

It almost seems like a no brainer. Get rid of the myriad potential vacuum leaks, The obsolete parts that are increasingly expensive to replace/rebuild, the great, big lifting disc right in the middle of the airflow.

I would expect trouble-free cold starts, better throttle response, better fuel mileage and potential for performance improvements (hot cams!)

My modern fuel injected cars pretty much don't have fuel system problems. My 98 Vortec had some issues but that's a pretty oddball setup.

Old american V8's have a selection of units you can just bolt on an intake manifold and go. (at least that's what it looks like).

So what am I missing here? Some of the kits out there have very reasonable prices. Why aren't these swaps commonplace?

['76 911S 3.0]

Check out Rasant Products, he makes some nice plug and play solutions for our engines.

[shamrok]

I’m in the middle of putting together my own Microsquirt setup, but the most readily available plug and play kits are from Bitz, X-Faktory, Rasant, and maybe Clewett. Depending on what you want to do, you’re looking at $2k-10k.

Swaps are becoming more commonplace, do some searching. I’ve concocted much of my setup just searching the archives here.

[Iciclehead]

Pretty impressed with what I saw on the Rasant site....may likely be perfect for me....

[Porchdog]

So far I have been thinking X-factory or Bitz. Mostly because they seem to have everything a "stock" motor needs, with plenty of installed kits.

I'm a bit intimidated by the idea that I might go through the conversion and not be able to start the car.

I guess that I have read a few threads on here with guys struggling to get all of the parts, then make them work together.

I really prefer to work on my car myself but I can get in over my head.

$2k all in? That actually sounds reasonable. $10,000 I would probably struggle with my inner tightwad to spend.

[gtc]

Bitz is probably the easiest and cheapest conversion for a car with CIS.

[icarp]

I will be using a custom made Jenvey ITB set up with AEM 506 stand alone . The torque and better driving characteristics are fantastic . If you don' like it it's an easy resale on Pelican. HA!

[Raceboy]

For cars with EFI (911 3.2, 964, 993) there's VEMS plug and play kits, come with running maos, have integrated wideband lambda, knock sensing, tuning and logging over Bluetooth etc.

www.facebook.com/vemsporsche
VEMS for Porsche

[pampadori]

There are some cheap ways to do it. If you could scavenge a 3.2 of its intake and injectors and then run a megasquirt or an AEM Infinity, you can really keep the costs down. Esp if you retain your ignition setup from the CIS.

[Raceboy]

Converting to standalone and not buying even Bosch 3x2 wasted sspark coilpack is just pointless.. It costs ~120 usd new and you can have full control over ignition..

[pampadori]

I was just thinking about the additional crank/cam sensors needed for it but I guess you'd need them for the EFI anyway so there really isn't much savings there. Plus, all the power in these motors seems to come from ignition refinement and not AFR. So you're right. Best to spring for the ignition stuff too. I got my bosch (audi 1.8L) COP for $15 ea thru one of the big parts retailers.

[Dr J]

Check out the Bitz install manual online as it will be helpful. Probably the easiest way to do it although there is no spark control. If you keep Auxiliary Air Valve you can have cold start idle handled.

You can keep your manifold as Bitz and Rasant have injector adapters. If you want ignition control, Rasant has a unit that replaces the distributer to give the equivalent of crank and cam sensors. However, if you do full EFI fueling/ignition there is a bit of programming and fiddling before it works well. If you are not experienced, it would be well worth having someone set up all of the ECU programming. Otherwise you will have engine stalling, cold start problems, etc. etc.

[Raceboy]

For wasted spark coilpack just crank sensor is enough and it provides very good spark energy:

[Walt Fricke]

Raceboy - that is a whole lot smaller than the Electromotive systems, with three two hole coil packs (NAPA in the US carries the packs, as they were from a Pontiac or something from 20 or more years ago).

Since you endorse it, can I assume they put out plenty of spark? For a twin plug application, just use two? Very tidy looking.

I am a bit dubious that any of this is plug and play the way computer stuff is, though. I had all the stuff for the Electromotive with an engine I bought that ran it. I changed the manifolds, but thought the settings which had been used would work. But the engine would start, but stall when you tried to get going unless you could get it to 10 or so MPH. Turned out the throttle position sensor, which should raise its output voltage as the throttle opens, and had the proper reading at closed throttle, and at WOT, would actually lower the voltage when first you gave it some gas, then pick up. Weird. Guys I know who have done conversions tend to have minor problems, and then spend a lot of time with someone watching a laptop while they drive around so they can get all the maps spot on. Though with a race car you don't need all that, and when you are done with it on a street car I suppose it is pretty much very stable ever after.

[Cheshire Cat]

Originally Posted by Raceboy

For wasted spark coilpack just crank sensor is enough and it provides very good spark energy:

Hey Raceboy is that a smart coil by any chance?

[wreckah]

not many people do it because it hurts resale value. Or at least it does not add anything to the value. But if you want an old porsche with superb driveability, cold starts, etc...i would recommend EFI immediately.

Bit of a learning curve to it if you are doing it yourself. That's mainly the reason (and cost) i went for the bitz kit first. Then a couple of months ago i went further and threw out the original ignition system and went distributorless with crankwheel and upgrade microsquirt computer.

If i had to do it again, i would go full kit immediately. Couple of businesses making beautiful kits with individual throttle bodies.

Nothing beats the feeling of junking old worn out parts, never having to fear again of them failing or not working as they should. That whole lambda junk was fantastic to throw out. (got a 1981)

If you don't look at resale value, then it almost makes financial sense too, because CIS parts are getting expensive to diagnose and replace/repair. IMO. Many people here are saying CIS is superbly reliable and very easy to diagnose...i have exactly the opposite opinion. 40 year old CIS (especially the 81-83 cars) is really difficult and cumbersome to diagnose and repair as a DIY proposition and i'll bet you a large percentage of cars out there is not running properly.

again, just IMO.

[Knockdown]

Just installed a kit from X-Factory on my 77S, could not be happier with the experience and results. Immediate throttle response and total control over the engine rpm/load range. Plus you have complete visibility of fuel/ignition operation with the data logging capability. Really nice being able to tune your engine from the drivers seat!

PMO ITB/AEM 2.7L Install Notes

[mepstein]

The kits should be called - plug, tune, play. I don't know of one kit that you can install and drive. Everyone will require tuning.

[Raceboy]

VEMS PnP kits ARE plug and play, it has autotune that you just run while driving for a while and it just works. And for most configurations it just works even without autotune.

Regarding Bosch coilpack, it puts enough spark energy to ignite 900 hp BMW M30 engine, you can rest assured it provides enough energy to have 911 avreagre hp ignited

[Raceboy]

Originally Posted by Cheshire Cat

Hey Raceboy is that a smart coil by any chance?

No, t requires IGBT output from ECU or external igniter.
But there are versions with integrated igniter as well.