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Elephant Racing offers a high clearance oil line that might help.
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911 Rod View Post
Looks Euro height to me. Generally, these cars are not meant to be "slammed".
Did you measure it from the ground to the lip?
Ok, car has a full tank of gas - so probably dropped a tad.

Rear wheels - Height from ground (flat surface) to lip = just over 26"
Front wheels - Height from ground to lip = just below 26"

It appears w/these wheels that I could come down an inch w/the camber and be ok...that is if I can avoid the Oil line.

I don't have the ET yet, as I haven't taken off the wheels...but I did my best to remeasure the width of the rubber sidewall to sidewall and I think the backs are now 10".
Old 05-15-2019, 02:14 PM
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Here's about as low as I've run my car, this is with pretty stiff torsion bars but similar wheel specs to yours:



FYI this is how Porsche delivered their test car to Car and Driver in 1984, which is post the "US height" period. That means this is actually real Euro height. Correct, factory method of measurement is from the center of the torsion bar to the hub, you can find the procedure and spec in a lot of posts:



Most of us (myself included) like how the cars look when they are quite a bit lower than actual Euro height. At some point, people started calling anything lowered "Euro height" which makes it confusing.

The special US height for bumper restrictions was hilaribad, looks like those tacky Safari conversions that are so trendy right now. From a 1978 911SC review:

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Old 05-16-2019, 07:36 AM
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A thick washer was user to raise car up on top of shock to be USA legal. Just remove
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Old 05-16-2019, 07:42 AM
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The response from Lindsey Racing....

Hello,

They sure look like my wheels. Considering this is a stock body with the SC flare, I think they are 8" front and 9" rears. The wheel width is measured on the inside of the rim, where the tire seals. If you measured the overall width of the rim you would be roughly 1 inch larger. So you 8" front wheel would measure close to 9" and your 9" would be 10" out to out. You can't put a 9.5" on the rear without relocating the oil line inside the RR wheel well.

The backspace dimension on both the front and rears assuming they are 8&9 inch wheels is 5.75". That is a 32mm offset on the front wheel and 19mm offset on the rear.
Be careful on spacers, more so the lug nut you are using. The factory alloy nuts have 2x the diameter of the wheel stud in thread engagement. The rule of thumb is 1 x the diameter for steel, 1.5 x for cast iron, 2 x for aluminum.

If you reduce the engagement on the lug nut by adding a spacer, you need to change over to a steel nut. We sell an open end steel lug nut, or you can buy a chrome plated steel nut. They are both listed on this page.
https://www.lindseyracing.com/LR/Parts/GENLUGNUT.html

The other options is to put longer studs in the rear and stay with the stock lug nuts. Your stud length options are on the same page.
Hope that helps.

Regards
Mike Lindsey


After reviewing,

For the rear wheels - I think the best option is to relocate the oil line. Once that's done, I should have plenty of room to lower and apply camber (I think).

For the front wheels - If I understand Mike's note right, I think I may need to use spacers and longer studs in order to give more clearance to the inside fender which is being rubbed (see new photo)...



Question:

1. If I add a spacer to the front wheels, should I add it to the rears?

2. I'm guessing I should relocate the oil line regardless, but if I take the spacer approach w/the new studs, should that work instead?

I care most about doing the right thing, but would rather pay less doing it.

THANK YOU!
Old 05-16-2019, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidowntown View Post
Question:

1. If I add a spacer to the front wheels, should I add it to the rears?

2. I'm guessing I should relocate the oil line regardless, but if I take the spacer approach w/the new studs, should that work instead?

I care most about doing the right thing, but would rather pay less doing it.

THANK YOU!
1. Totally cosmetic and personal preference. There won't be a marked difference in handling over a few millimeters of additional track width.

2. It should. Hard to say definitively without seeing your car, knowing how much you're going to change camber, and knowing just how far you intend to lower it.

Lowering a car does not just move the wheel(s) straight up and down. The suspension articulates and that can compromise/exaggerate your clearances.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jac1976 View Post
Elephant Racing offers a high clearance oil line that might help.
I have a brand new in plastic one of these lines that I am not going to use. PM if interested. I bought it for my 72 and then had to take a different direction to make my oil system.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpnovak View Post
I have a brand new in plastic one of these lines that I am not going to use. PM if interested. I bought it for my 72 and then had to take a different direction to make my oil system.
Love the '72. I believe the '72 system is the one year that's unique per the website. They have a line pre-1972 and post.

https://www.elephantracing.com/porsche/911/oil-cooling-for-911/oil-lines-hoses-fittings/oil-lines-hoses/#prettyPhoto
Old 05-16-2019, 12:49 PM
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Yes. The 72 oil system is unique. Even more so when you put a later engine and home-built oil cooler system in the car. I had to custom make my oil lines.

I do agree with the post (Scott Post #4) above. I would just bend the metal section closer to the longitudinal frame "rail" to gain some more tire clearance. This could be done in the car. The tubing is soft and malleable. Doesn't cost anything to try.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:56 PM
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On the left is mine on the right is yours w/ Lindsey wheels per you description

In front the range for an 8 is ET25 to ET30, yours w/ ET31 is pushed in avoiding a lip issue but increasing an issue on the inside, it looks sit's rubbing at full lock. A typical solution is to use a 5mm spacer, The stock lug nuts should be able to handle that w/o issue for street use.

In back you can probably get away w/ what you have, but for insurance relocate the oil line down into the crease, this isn't a big deal


Here's a pic of mine w/ the relocated oil line


Just for reference my fenders are 24 5/8" & 23 7/8", no rub
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:00 PM
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My observations:
Disregard the posts that describe different wheels and MY chassis - they don't apply to your SC with 17" Lindsey wheels.

The front wheel inner rub in your photo looks like interference when the wheel is at full lock rather than from suspension compression. Not sure inserting a spacer is going to resolve that. Most front end interference is at the front fender lip at a couple of clock positions. In addition, your ďrubĒ mark looks pretty severe, a gouge caused by something harder than tire rubber (or an optical effect)? I enhanced the photo a bit and noticed some semblance of sidewall rubbing, but no rub marks on the edge where tread meets sidewall, which is usually the outermost edge of a tire. Hmmm.



The commonly-used Lindsey Fuchs frt/rear tires are what Bill mentioned (255/40-17 and 225/45-17). I havenít seen many posts from Lindsey users citing interference at that front location. Limiting the max. lock position is possible, but a real fix is suggested.

As for the rear:
The rear lip is usually not in the path of a close-fitting tire/wheel. As the tire/wheel width increases and/or as the ride height drops, the tire arcs upward, and will rub a half crescent mark on the back side of the fender a couple inches up from the wheel well lip and will eventually burn that pattern through the paint.

Iíd follow Billís suggestion and re-route the inner fender oil line so it sits both higher and closer to the chassis metal. That might cost you some labor. No spacer. Your ground to wheel well lip ride height of 26Ē isnít very low. Typically, you should have a good inch lower to go if needed. I suggest not messing with torsion bars or wheel alignment specs for addíl active tire clearance. If you have a typical wheel/tire combo, adjust the ride height. Otherwise, rethink that wheel/tire choice. Compromising in this area isnít suggested.

BTW, thereís nothing against safely using temporary wheel spacers to ball-park the needed spacer width. Confine vehicle operation to within 20í of your workspace and only man-powered speed.

Sherwood
Old 05-16-2019, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911pcars View Post
My observations:
Disregard the posts that describe different wheels and MY chassis - they don't apply to your SC with 17" Lindsey wheels.

The front wheel inner rub in your photo looks like interference when the wheel is at full lock rather than from suspension compression. Not sure inserting a spacer is going to resolve that. Most front end interference is at the front fender lip at a couple of clock positions. In addition, your ďrubĒ mark looks pretty severe, a gouge caused by something harder than tire rubber (or an optical effect)? I enhanced the photo a bit and noticed some semblance of sidewall rubbing, but no rub marks on the edge where tread meets sidewall, which is usually the outermost edge of a tire. Hmmm.

The commonly-used Lindsey Fuchs frt/rear tires are what Bill mentioned (255/40-17 and 225/45-17). I havenít seen many posts from Lindsey users citing interference at that front location. Limiting the max. lock position is possible, but a real fix is suggested.

As for the rear:
The rear lip is usually not in the path of a close-fitting tire/wheel. As the tire/wheel width increases and/or as the ride height drops, the tire arcs upward, and will rub a half crescent mark on the back side of the fender a couple inches up from the wheel well lip and will eventually burn that pattern through the paint.

Iíd follow Billís suggestion and re-route the inner fender oil line so it sits both higher and closer to the chassis metal. That might cost you some labor. No spacer. Your ground to wheel well lip ride height of 26Ē isnít very low. Typically, you should have a good inch lower to go if needed. I suggest not messing with torsion bars or wheel alignment specs for addíl active tire clearance. If you have a typical wheel/tire combo, adjust the ride height. Otherwise, rethink that wheel/tire choice. Compromising in this area isnít suggested.

BTW, thereís nothing against safely using temporary wheel spacers to ball-park the needed spacer width. Confine vehicle operation to within 20í of your workspace and only man-powered speed.

Sherwood
This is all very help feedback. It's a bummer I didn't see this before I purchased the car, as I think this would've been one of those things they should have covered. They were great and did some other things, but paid a premium for the car for a reason.

My first choice would be to make these wheels work...they really pop w/the color...maybe the car would be quicker w/a smaller wheel, but I've really enjoyed the ride so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 911pcars View Post
I suggest not messing with torsion bars or wheel alignment specs for addíl active tire clearance.
Maybe I'm not understanding you here...don't you have to adjust the torsion bars to lower the rear? Or are you just saying don't mess w/them or alignment specs just for the sake of clearance?

Regarding the rear, I think I have to move the line (see photo)

It appears some adjustments were made when the new exhaust was put in, blocking my ability to move the line to the left away from the wheel, thus safest bet is to relocate that line as has been advised. Once that's done, I'm assuming I can safely lower the car an inch.

Regarding the rear: I went and took a closer look. I turned the wheel sharply to the left and it is apparent that it is infact, coming from the tire. Still interesting how a tire could cause that kind of a mark, but I think that's what it is. The rim of the wheel is too far inside to have caused it...I think. Do you not think a 5mm spacer would help w/that?

Old 05-16-2019, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Maybe I'm not understanding you here...don't you have to adjust the torsion bars to lower the rear? Or are you just saying don't mess w/them or alignment specs just for the sake of clearance?
Resetting ride height is fine. What I meant was to not change the suspension (i.e. larger torsion bars) or crank in some camber or toe changes just to mitigate the interference and/or create a workaround.

Not sure about the wheel/tire rub on the inner fender. Only rubs on the driver's side? Maybe start with confirming the backspacing of the Lindsey wheel. There's a related thread where Mike Lindsey answered a clearance issue and that front and rear offsets should be 5.75" (distance from mounting surface to tire bead).
Wanted to lower my SC...ran into a challenge

Perhaps a nearby alignment shop with Porsche experience can take a look and offer some suggestions. I know, they're not everywhere. Is there a Porsche community nearby where you can share the issue? Maybe someone here can enlighten us.

While large flat washers aren't PAG or NASA-approved spacer material, a handful of them (or equiv.) slipped on the lug studs will tell you if an official spacer will help (caveats mentioned). I assume the pass. side is ok. So why the difference? LF/RF wheel offsets not the same, L/R toe adjustments not equivalent? Let's hope the front/rear geometry is within specs (no prior collision damage). An alignment and/or race tech pro might be able to confirm.

Sherwood
Old 05-16-2019, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 911pcars View Post
Perhaps a nearby alignment shop with Porsche experience can take a look and offer some suggestions. I know, they're not everywhere. Is there a Porsche community nearby where you can share the issue? Maybe someone here can enlighten us. Sherwood

I'm in Utah...there are a couple Porsche dealers w/in 25 miles (one is w/in 5 miles). You would think I could get some guidance at one of them...there are also some local German/European car mechanic specialist as well.

Yeah, bugged a bit about why the left has marks and not the right as well.

I have a note into Mike Lindsey. He responded to me earlier in my discovery. I sent him more information and referenced this thread. Hopefully I can figure it out.

The car tracks very well....no pull, etc, even w/braking, so hopefully the chassis is pretty true, and I wonder if the last owner was just a bit ambitious to have some wide wheels...they look great, but gotta fit.

I REALLY appreciate all of the help/feedback and suggestions!
Old 05-16-2019, 09:18 PM
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Alright, confirmed that the wheels (rims) are 8's and 9's and should fit. The problem w/the oil line is because it was moved closer to the wheel to make room for the exhaust system.

I'll move the line and try a spacer on the front.

FYI - Mike Lindsey and his brothers at Lindsey Racing have been very helpful!
Old 05-17-2019, 06:13 AM
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Are you sure the rub mark is from your current set up?
I recently cleaned my wheel wells and found a mark like yours from the past.
I'd put some duct tape there.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidowntown View Post
Alright, confirmed that the wheels (rims) are 8's and 9's and should fit. The problem w/the oil line is because it was moved closer to the wheel to make room for the exhaust system.

I'll move the line and try a spacer on the front.

FYI - Mike Lindsey and his brothers at Lindsey Racing have been very helpful!
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Old 05-17-2019, 01:53 PM
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Old 05-17-2019, 02:07 PM
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