problems with 1984?

fogcity · 03-21-2003, 09:26 PM

I've got a good lead on an 1983sc but also might check out a 1984 Carrara. Being the first year for this engine, is there any problems with that year?

ChrisBennet · ChrisBennet's Garage

If you get a Carrera you might have to deal with a lot of jealeous SCWDP people.

Sorry, inside joke. I see you're new. SCWDP = SC World Domination Plot
-Chris (Carrera owner)

Typical Fish · Typical Fish's Garage

I thought it was "Semi Carrera With Diminished Power"...

Don Plumley · Don Plumley's Garage

AFAIK, there were not any significant year one issues, like there were in the first couple of years of 964's for example. A 19 year old car should have the teething problems worked out by now. There was an issue with the original one-wire CHT sensor, hopefully that's been updated. Depending on the miles, you should be through a clutch or two. Oil return tubes get leaky then get replaced. Sway bar brackets break off, get welded back on. CV joints get relubed. Wheel bearings get repacked or replaced. Turbo Tie rod update is desirable. Knowing these things are the benefits of good maintenance records and receipts.

The 3.2 motronic engine is robust and reliable. If the sensors are working properly, the motor simply runs. The definition of the 3.2 Carrera years is "bullet-proof".

That being said, I'd take a better maintained 83 SC than a poorly maintained 84 Carrera. In either case, you are dealing with a 20 year old vehicle, stuff breaks and wears out and at some point it is a roll of the dice.

Good luck,

Don

yelcab1 · 03-22-2003, 08:40 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Don Plumley
[B]A 19 year old car should have the teething problems worked out by now. ]

Except that the valve guides never really get worked out, just replaced, and replaced and replaced.

Don Plumley · Don Plumley's Garage

Yes, some 3.2 motors have premature valve guide wear. What you mean by replaced, replaced, replaced...?

PMVGW tends to show up around 60K miles as excess oil consumption, fouled plugs and smoking more than normal. It is attributed to the viton seal and high operating temps caused by a lean mixture. Real early engines used copper guides that did not have this problem. If you are affected by this problem, you replace them with guides that should work for a long long time. There is a debate about teflon vs. newer viton seals, I don't know anything about it. (note: The facts above were gathered from various posts including John Walker)

My point is not to be defensive about 3.2 motors - just want to lay out the facts and caveat emptor.

03-22-2003, 09:26 AM

fogcity

Go for a Carrera. Overall it's a better car. Uprated brakes, DME engine, better fuel mileage, more power, hydraulic chain tensioners etc.

masraum · 03-22-2003, 09:46 AM

I was originally looking for an SC, but tried a couple of Carreras and had to have one, that being said, If choosing between the 83 and 84 then go with the car that is in better overall shape.

Doug Zielke · 03-22-2003, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fogcity
I've got a good lead on an 1983sc but also might check out a 1984 Carrara. Being the first year for this engine, is there any problems with that year?

Yo foggy,
Not too many problems...except......

All years of the Carreras have their rod bolts made from an alloy that resembles un-cooked pasta. Not a problem if you keep the revs below 3000 or so.

That and the previously mentioned valve guide issues. The DME that 3.2 fans love so much, makes the mixture lean and ...mean. That shortens the life of those guides due to excessive heat.

And finally, if you have a good SC in your sights, why would you even think about an '84? Carreras Blow, doncha know?

yelcab1 · 03-22-2003, 04:42 PM

I was not getting defensive about 3.2L. I owned a 84. The valve guides wear so fast that there is more valve train noise when the engine warms up. It does not sound as sweet as a nice, tight, air-cooled Porsche engine should. You know the sound, the turbine on a Jet upon taking off.

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

84 Carrera's BITE.....get a SOOPER DOOPER CARRERA....the 83 rules...........

ChrisBennet · ChrisBennet's Garage

I know Doug is just tryin to tease us Carrera owners but he raises some issues and I'll add some of my own:
Rod bolts: The SC has beefy 10mm rods bolts and the Carrera has weaker 9mm bolts. I doubt the alloy has anything to do with it. As long as you keep the revs under 6000rpm you shouldn't have any problems. Win to SC.
Valve guide wear: There were a few cases of premature valve wear (<60Kmiles) but I'd guess Carrera heads need rebuilding closer to 90-100K on average. Not as good as an SC but is it premature?
Broken head studs: Of the 3 cars I personally know of with broken head studs, 2 were SC's and 1 was a Carrera. Edge to Carrera.
Engine cooling: Carrera's are fine at the track while SC's often need to resort to taking a headlight out and punching holes in the headlight bucket to get adequate cooling. Win to Carrera
But I agree that Carrera's Blow (by SC's that is)

-Chris

Doug Zielke · 03-22-2003, 07:09 PM

"Broken head studs: Of the 3 cars I personally know of with broken head studs, 2 were SC's and 1 was a Carrera. Edge to Carrera."

Chris....
As you know, both the SC's and the Carreras have Dilavar head studs.
The Carreras are still a bit newer than our SC's. I'm expecting most 3.2 owners will start to experience head stud problems as their cars pass the 20th birthday mark.

And ya know...I really don't have anything against Carreras.
(But I'm usually able to talk friends out of buying them, just by taking them for a ride in the ol' Blue Bomber )

pwd72s · 03-22-2003, 07:32 PM

Isn't it the ultimate guy of the p-car world,

Bruce Anderson, who advises to always buy the newest and best Porsche you can afford? So, who would want an old SC when they could affford a Carrera? For that matter, who would want an old pre 1974 car when they could afford, well, the newest and the better, whatever that is? Forget that '73 RS! A 1980 SC is newer, therefore "better", right?

jrdavid68 · 03-23-2003, 08:02 AM

I think it was mostly the music and the clothes, otherwise, not such a bad year.

JrDavid68
1986 Carrera

Doug Zielke · 03-23-2003, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by that old curmudgeon, pwd72s
Isn't it the ultimate guy of the p-car world, Bruce Anderson......

Hey Paul,
I've noticed you seem to have a mad-on for "Dear Old Bruce".
What did he ever do to *you*?

stlrj · 03-25-2003, 06:33 AM

Quote:

The DME that 3.2 fans love so much, makes the mixture lean and ...mean. That shortens the life of those guides due to excessive heat.

BA mentions a correlation between Carreras with a rich running condtion and premature valve guide wear which sounds counterintuitive to what you might have thought.

More research on the subject reveals a surprising increase in cylinder head temperatures (CHT) when mixtures are richer than stoiciometric (02 sensor range) which also supports BA's empirical observations.

Regs,

Joe Garcia
86 Carrera
Redwood PCA since 1976