Cracked airbox it seems JB Weld maybe

[mike sampsel]

Well since my smoke test revealed smoke around the 4,5,6 side runner hoses, I’m pretty confident my airbox has a slight crack. As evidenced by these photos:







Pretty likely this is what caused my rpm to stay constant after removal of my oil cap.
So, new airbox or the Porsche rookie mechanics greatest weapon: JB weld.

Which one?

[boyt911sc]

Mike,

The pictures you posted showed the cracks along the seam or perimeter of the airbox. Time to replace the airbox with a new one. They are now less than $250 brand new. You are not saving much by fixing this 40 year old airbox. Even if you are able to seal it, how long do you think it would last? Well, it is a decision you have to make.

Tony

[pampadori]

That was the reason for me doing my ITB swap originally. Which led to finding broken studs and rebuilding the motor...but you've already tackled that so maybe worth considering an alternate induction setup.

[911SauCy]

Epoxy is $8...

[Paulporsche]

I'm not disagreeing with Tony, but if you want to try the fix, there are threads on this. John Walker has recommended a particular type of adhesive that seemed to work for him.

[mike sampsel]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

Mike,

The pictures you posted showed the cracks along the seam or perimeter of the airbox. Time to replace the airbox with a new one. They are now less than $250 brand new. You are not saving much by fixing this 40 year old airbox. Even if you are able to seal it, how long do you think it would last? Well, it is a decision you have to make.

Tony

Hi Tony,

I'm just shocked I found it, being I'm the dullest tool in the shed and all.
Prices I've seen on new ones is $450 or so, I'll shop around.
Car performed okay with the crack, I'm going to see if my fix stops the smoke then I'll decide from there. It's like a scavenger hunt

And all joking aside, I appreciate the advice and comments with various opinions on the solution.

[rdimarco]

I had a leak in mine along the seam. Split it apart and glued with JBWeld. That was over 25 years ago and it's still together, leak free. YMMV.

[hughc]

I replaced my cracked air box for two reasons
1- it was cracked......
2- I no longer wanted a POV , which my cracked one had.
So I bought a new one, for less than $200.
Even though it appeared extremely well made I decided I could make it a little stronger by removing all the screws and replacing them with small nuts and bolts I dont think this box will blow open, but who knows.
Had I decided I wanted to keep the POV I would have done exactly what rdimarco did and I would have used JB weld after thorough cleaning of both mating surfaces. (Wire brush even). Then I would have replaced all the screws with nuts and bolts. I feel confident that would have been more than satisfactory.
I opted against the POV because I think they could be a source of air leaks. I tested three POV's by shining a light inside the opening. In all cases light could be seen under the flapper.
Maybe they were all defective.
What I might suggest, if you want to use the POV, is to find a way to add more preload to the lifting lid. That might be as easy as placing a 1/8" pce of plastic between the closing spring and the top of the flapper.
Good luck.

[MichaelSJackson]

I'm not opposed to buying a new airbox, but JB-Weld has worked for me. Classic time vs. money bet. This time I won, but I'm glad it's worked and I didn't have to revisit it.

[mike sampsel]

I’m not opposed to buying a new one either, but my genes want me to attempt to fix this one and use the savings on 3 shares of NVDIA instead . Must admit first application let another leak be seen. Maybe it’ll be fixed airbox for a while, until I see if my rebuild holds together ... and then PMO’s. Or an “airplane” (model only).

[piscator]

I would fix that with laminations of epoxy and dynel cloth. If you prefer you could also use fiberglass, carbon fiber, or kevlar.

It's a lot of work but it will be successful. These two threads that I posted might give you some idea.

Cracked Evaporator Housing Fix

Air Control Box Repair, Ventilation

I've done a lot of this kind of repair and in my experience any attempt to 'just glue it' is not going to be a permanent fix no matter what glue you use. JB weld is basically a thickened epoxy with additives (you can make it yourself) but epoxy alone is not going to seal those cracks permanently You need to add an impregnable cloth to give the repair strength.

[mike sampsel]

Thanks Robert,

Interesting how this problem which the Porsche CIS troubleshooting manual flowchart said: “a fix was not required” has compounded. Thinking my JB weld fix (without the cloth) is not the best way, but the ship has sailed. And will see how long it lasts for a data point (maybe). Via testing of the oil cap rpm. Still with 6 cars, getting lots of miles on this car in many pieces will be a challenge.

[G450X]

The cheapest I could find any of the SC air boxes (late 38mm or early 44mm) were a bit over $400, and on some sites they were nearly $500.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by G450X

The cheapest I could find any of the SC air boxes (late 38mm or early 44mm) were a bit over $400, and on some sites they were nearly $500.

Found a 38mm for $275 just now.

[patkeefe]

I have researched this in the past. Searching my name and airbox may yield results.
Short version is next to nothing will patch these airboxes. You could get lucky, which is worth a try... cheap and relatively easy. Patching N/A is much easier than patching a cut up pressurized airbox.
I found some stuff on Amazon which sort of works.
Best assurance of no leaks is to get a new airbox.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Found a 38mm for $275 just now.

Installed this brand new CIS air box for a PP member several weeks ago and cost less than $250.





Tony

[piscator]

My post might have sounded like I don't like JBWeld and that's not the case. It's a very good product. The problem with 'store bought' epoxies or resin based adhesives is shelf life. The epoxy I use for marine repairs is potent for about 2 years, give or take a year. Polyester resins 1 to 2 years max. And storage temperature has a big impact on those ranges.

For small repairs, I used to buy the little tubes of epoxy sold in hardware stores because they were convenient. In recent years I've had more and more problems with those tube adhesives not curing fully -- even JBWeld. It's really frustrating to do a nice repair that winds up a gooey mess that never hardens!

I'm only guessing, but with our 'global economy' I imagine that epoxy products can be roaming the world at varying temperatures for who knows how long. Stores go out of business, inventory gets sold, stuff sits in warehouses, not to mention sitting on my shelf until needed.

It's best to test any epoxy or resin based adhesive you buy before applying it to the repair. Just mix up a test batch to make sure that it cures fully.

Also, epoxies don't catalyze well in tiny batches. The techs at West Systems told me that mixing small volumes of epoxy on a flat surface prevents the molecules from really getting to know one another. Best to mix even small amounts in a container, like a little medicine cup. I still mix small batches on flat plastic, but I make sure I squeeze out a healthy dollop that's about 3 times what I need. Just make sure there's some depth of 'A' and 'B' so you can stir thoroughly!

Also, epoxy mixed with 'fast cure' hardeners are far more failure prone than 'slow cure.' The epoxy we use for marine repairs takes 7 to 12 hours to fully cure. Believe me, if we could use epoxy that cures in 5 or 15 minutes, we would! I do use 15 minute epoxies but tend to avoid the 5 minute ones.

Lastly, the above is based on my experience using various products. My daughter wants to be a chemist, but I am certainly not one!

[Flojo]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

Tony

don't forget the pop-off valve (toilet-lid valve)

[Flojo]

Originally Posted by piscator

Also, epoxy mixed with 'fast cure' hardeners are far more failure prone than 'slow cure.'

can't deny this, though for that bit of a repair I wouldn't go space odyssey scientific and not use it/do it JB-weld-style

[piscator]

Since we're on the subject, I might as well ask. Would there be a market for air-boxes made in carbon fiber?

Making a mold from a donor box is time consuming but not difficult. I thought about doing that when I repaired my evaporator box. One shop where I buy supplies, makes molds to do short runs of parts for the Navy. Their work is impeccable!

I'm not sure it's something I'd want to get into, but I am curious to know what you guys think. (If this is too much a thread derail just ignore me).

BTW: Carbon fiber is over-rated. In many of the applications where I've seen it used it's really not necessary. Carbon fiber and Kevlar are strong, but not a whole lot stronger than fiberglass. They are lighter than 'glass, so great for making canoes, tennis rackets, and race car parts. But they're also brittle and prone to cracking. Fiberglass is the hands down winner for toughness and longevity. The fiberglass shock mounts I made for my truck are as strong as steel and will outlive the frame by decades.