Eisenmann Exhaust System for 3.2 Carrera - the fitting

[UK Carrera]

OK, started a new thread now that I am attempting to fit this system.

Now, can anyone spot any obvious stupidity on my part? - it appears that the driver's side HE (NOTE: RHD car)will not fit the car.

The studs line up reasonably well but the HE is prevented for sitting flush with the exhaust ports by the engine cooler - this hits the HE as there does not appear to be sufficient clearance.

There is also a welded-on tab on the sided of the HE that will foul a boss on the crankcase though not before the engine cooler stops play.

This may be a blessing as if I haven't been stupid I now have a cast iron reason for rejecting the whole system.

In these images I have blocked the HE up as far as I can - there is no 'wriggle room' to get it any further.

[kuehl]

Gee, sorry to read that. I can tell you that on my Dansk headers, that little tab, I simply bent back.

However, the heater box so close to the shock?

Just for xhits and giggles, check the supplier's part number on the order acknowledged you received after placing the order, vs. the part number on any paperwork that came with the product, and also against the part number they show on their website for your year, make, and model.

[UK Carrera]

Originally Posted by kuehl

Gee, sorry to read that. I can tell you that on my Dansk headers, that little tab, I simply bent back.

However, the heater box so close to the shock?

Just for xhits and giggles, check the supplier's part number on the order acknowledged you received after placing the order, vs. the part number on any paperwork that came with the product, and also against the part number they show on their website for your year, make, and model.

Have already checked the part number, but that's proven inconclusive. Order states P91132G.00601B, paperwork with delivery states p91132G.00601S, plate on HEs says P91132.WT42, website is P91132G.00702B. Now the 'B' and the 'S' are easily explained as I ordered a Black exhaust tip but received a Silver (after discussion). It was going to be another 3-4 weeks delivery delay for a black tip as the process is carried out by a sub-contractor.

Have just come back in from garage as I suddenly thought that maybe the suspension droop is my stupidity. But no. Withe suspension lifted (quiet a way as it turns out) and the HE no longer touching the damper my problem is unchanged. The engine cooler is stopping play.

[UK Carrera]

There is also a clear issue with the oil pipework supplied with the Eisenmann kit. Either the rubber section of the hose is too short or the lower solid line angles need to be more acute. When fitted up, and with everything loose so that it finds it's own equilibrium, the hose kinks.

Raising or lowering the lower hard part of the line makes the kink worse. The rubber section of the pipe measures 280mm - I believe it should be circa 315mm which would allow the rubber hose to take up a larger bend radius and hence a straighter entry in the hard line.

[Flat6pac]

Obvious, you’re using thin flange on a thick flange application.
I know nothing of Eisenmann exhaust but less costly than SSI, maybe there is a reason for it.
I did have recently SSI that wouldn’t seat because the case support which I removed as noted above
Bruce

[RarlyL8]

There have been a lot of problems with the aftermarket back dated oil lines being too short.
The 3.2L Carrera uses thick port flanges, the ones you have are thin flange. Are the primaries on your system 1.5" or 1.63"? It seems you may have the wrong exchangers for your engine/chassis.

[UK Carrera]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

There have been a lot of problems with the aftermarket back dated oil lines being too short.
The 3.2L Carrera uses thick port flanges, the ones you have are thin flange. Are the primaries on your system 1.5" or 1.63"? It seems you may have the wrong exchangers for your engine/chassis.

42mm OD, 39.6 ID - so they are the larger primaries.
The flange thickness would certainly explain my fitting problem.
But surely I can't be the first person to buy an Eisenmann system and find this out?
All of the Eisenmann images for the system that I have seen (from them) show thin flanges - as I have.

[75 911s]

question:

I know some 80-83 heat exchangers were different in terms of flange thickness depending on US delivery vs Euro. Did the Carreras have a difference in thin vs thick for Euro Vs US delivery exhaust systems?

In other words, is it possible that you have a US imported car in the UK and you have ordered Eismann 3.2 HE's - and they think you have a EURO car? So their part number is correct for a Euro Carrera? (assuming Euro Carrera's used thin flange.)

FYI many people have beat the exhangers to fit, it's a bad compromise, especially on a 3k setup.

As for the oil line, common issue. Bend and work it. The metal part should be angled down more. Sometimes this is a function of someone tightening the crossover pipe at the nut on the opposite side. When tightened down, it can twist the crossover pipe making it drop down in the middle where it crosses the trans, the result is now at the oil cooler side, it is now closer to the back of the car, and thus the oil line kinks.

[UK Carrera]

My car is a certified C16 UK JCT600 supplied car. Registered in August 88 here in the UK.

I'm simply not prepared to do any significant work making an exhaust that cost me £2672 ($3473 at today's exchange rate) fit my car. There's nothing unusual about my car - the engine is absolutely stock.

All the images I see of the Eisenmann for my car show thin flanges on the HEs, which would be OK if the primary tubes are longer to compensate. Though my driver's side HE has been relieved to give clearance for etc engine cooler it is simply insufficient.

I just want to be able to be robust in rejecting them.

[Jonny042]

I don't think the flange thinkness matters - the face of the flange where it hits the exhaust port should be in the same plane, regarldless of thick or thin. If anything there might be issues with the studs being too long - my late SC which had thick flange heads from the factory had thin flange SSI's installed and the studs were shortened. With a grinder and a cuttoff wheel, by the looks of it.

Was the right side HE "dented" to clear the cooler? Is clearancing it a bit more an option?

Do the other two flanges for #4 and #5 cylinders sit on the ports without a gap? Maybe #6 needs to be tweaked. In other words put the nuts on and tighten it down? Assemblies like this often warp and move around as they are welded. Even when they are bolted to a jig they will "spring" when removed from the fixture. Another way to ask, are the flanges all flat in relation to eachother when you put a straightedge across them?

[75 911s]

Understood. For posterity, I wonder if UK delivery Carrera is the same as USA. I'm trying to reason why Eismann would sell 3.2 headers in thin flange. They do specify 170KW which would be the 231hp euro engine. Does your UK car have a type 930/20 (ROW) or a 930/21?

Again, I don't know if exhaust was different on these two motors, but it might help in your rejection if we find out it is.

[Jonny042]

Have a read - Bigger "SSI" system

I'm sure you've seen it....

FWIW, damn near any aftermarket part I have ever purchased, and a good number of factory parts, require a bit of fettling to make work .

When I get my Eisenmann parts, regardless of how they fit, I am going to have to make them work, even if it requires cutting and welding - return across the atlantic is not going to be an option.

PS - It definitely sucks that you are having issues like this, but IMO you are far enough in now, you don't have much to lose by trying to pry/hammer/fight until you've beaten it into submission.

[UK Carrera]

My certificate of Authenticity for Porsche GB Ltd lists it as M93020.

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by 75 911s

Understood. For posterity, I wonder if UK delivery Carrera is the same as USA. I'm trying to reason why Eismann would sell 3.2 headers in thin flange. They do specify 170KW which would be the 231hp euro engine. Does your UK car have a type 930/20 (ROW) or a 930/21?

Again, I don't know if exhaust was different on these two motors, but it might help in your rejection if we find out it is.

Just guessing, but I'd say they don't make thick flange HE's at all. In order to fit to a 3.2 head the same way the stock think flange exhaust fits, they'd have to neck down to 35mm or whatever it is, defeating much of the purpose of the big tube headers.

[Jonny042]

Please note my post above links to a specific post in the "bigger SSI" thread where someone pictured their Eisenmann HE with flanges out of line.

[75 911s]

Yep, it's just poor design on Eismann's part. From the thread linked above by Johnny042 ...

Bigger "SSI" system

posts 210 and 212, others confirmed the oil cooler doesn't clear.

[UK Carrera]

Originally Posted by Jonny042

Have a read - Bigger "SSI" system

I'm sure you've seen it....

FWIW, damn near any aftermarket part I have ever purchased, and a good number of factory parts, require a bit of fettling to make work .

When I get my Eisenmann parts, regardless of how they fit, I am going to have to make them work, even if it requires cutting and welding - return across the atlantic is not going to be an option.

PS - It definitely sucks that you are having issues like this, but IMO you are far enough in now, you don't have much to lose by trying to pry/hammer/fight until you've beaten it into submission.

Just how much 'fettling' to fit is 'reasonable' though? Surely price also comes into this - with a cheaper product I would expect a greater degree of fettling. It's not as though every 3.2 Carrera is significantly different dimensionally.

I believe I'm well beyond 'reasonable'.

These should fit. Period.

[Jonny042]

I agree, you are well past the point of reasonable, and I don't believe you are wrong to be perturbed.

However, fighting to get your money back, reinstalling the old system, or finding a better replacement, etc. Might be more of a headache that a few well placed hammer blows and some swearing and prying etc.

Not sure that's a help... at least it's late enough there to think on it with a beer or three!

Unfortunately it seems to be the way of the world these days. It's hard enough to find some youngster who wants to weld for a living, much less take pride in workmanship, etc. Not fair to generalize like that but don't think I'm that far off.

[Trakrat]

Originally Posted by UK Carrera

Just how much 'fettling' to fit is 'reasonable' though? Surely price also comes into this - with a cheaper product I would expect a greater degree of fettling. It's not as though every 3.2 Carrera is significantly different dimensionally.

I believe I'm well beyond 'reasonable'.

These should fit. Period.

I completely agree with you. I had similar issues when I bought my Fabspeed exhaust, and when I brought the issue up to the company, I was told that my car is the problem and not their exhaust. They also suggested I have it custom fabricated to fit on my car. Unfortunately they never resolved my issue and I simply learned my lesson, lost about $2000 and will NEVER do business with them again.


At some point, you will have to give up to protect your sanity and move onto something else.

[mb911]

Originally Posted by Jonny042

I don't think the flange thinkness matters - the face of the flange where it hits the exhaust port should be in the same plane, regarldless of thick or thin. If anything there might be issues with the studs being too long - my late SC which had thick flange heads from the factory had thin flange SSI's installed and the studs were shortened. With a grinder and a cuttoff wheel, by the looks of it.

Was the right side HE "dented" to clear the cooler? Is clearancing it a bit more an option?

Do the other two flanges for #4 and #5 cylinders sit on the ports without a gap? Maybe #6 needs to be tweaked. In other words put the nuts on and tighten it down? Assemblies like this often warp and move around as they are welded. Even when they are bolted to a jig they will "spring" when removed from the fixture. Another way to ask, are the flanges all flat in relation to eachother when you put a straightedge across them?

Correct thickness of flange doesn't matter as the length of the primary is the same thick or thin flange.