Spin-on fuel filter build for 3.2

[Discseven]

Driver’s side tube can turn nicely under manifold’s arm-pit given pitch angle fuel rail sits at.

EDIT: Putting soft section in fuel line allows fuel rail to be disconnected from manifold then raised enough so fuel injectors can be removed/installed (without having to disconnect fuel line.)






Passenger’s side rail doesn't allow same move. Thought about how to modify extension so both sides could set up the same. Have learned to listen to gut when it says, “Don’t go there.” Not liking this as much as driver’s side, but, if bullit’s been dogged---feels like it has---is good to be moving forward instead of cleaning up self-inflicted mess.
.

[Discseven]

Recessed fuel spit ports... have never seen nozzle-end like this. Injectors are spec'd for '85 911 3.2.

Anyone seen this config before?

EDIT: These injectors from Carparts.com were a complete waste of time. Seller claims/promotes injectors being "OE Replacement" when in fact they're NOT. 3.2 engine management system calls for low impedance injectors. These Carparts.com injectors are high impedance. Injector finally used = Lucas D1540BA. As I write this, Lucas injector performance equals that of Bosch originals IMHO. This is based on feel, no dyno here.

.

[jjeffries]

Karl, sorry I'd missed this until now.

As the vee-dub mags I read as a Bug nut in the early 80's used to say, "ultra-sano" (as in "sanitary"). Your original drawings are pretty cool, too ... you have that "architect" handwriting thing down pat.

Viva the artistic-mechanical mind.

John

[fanaudical]

That four hole pattern is fairly typical on port injection systems since the mid eighties. Go to images.google.com and search for injector spray pattern.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by jjeffries

Karl, sorry I'd missed this until now.

As the vee-dub mags I read as a Bug nut in the early 80's used to say, "ultra-sano" (as in "sanitary"). Your original drawings are pretty cool, too ... you have that "architect" handwriting thing down pat.

Viva the artistic-mechanical mind.

John

vIvA indeed John!

Originally Posted by fanaudical

That four hole pattern is fairly typical on port injection systems since the mid eighties. Go to images.google.com and search for injector spray pattern.

Thanks Jim. Did find 4-hole spray patterns but no other injector with those 4 holes recessed within a cup. Am unsettled about possibly having to replace the injectors after reinstalling manifolds. Rather know these injectors are crap or good before going further.

.

[Discseven]

Injectors that were removed. Bosch. Recall why I did not get these---price. Am checking with Bosch to see what's what.

.

[DRACO A5OG]

Brother Karl,

Others with more technical know how will chime in.

Couple of notes:

Spray pattern is important but as I understand it, the rate of flow is much more critical.

If I were you, I would take the old ones or the new ones and send to a company (like IRC ) that reconditions, test flow rates and confirm they are all within tolerance of each other.

This is what I did when I purchased known good reconditioned ones. Sent them out and tested. They passed.

Even the Buick plugs I used had similar spray nozzle but was in metal. I opted out of it when I did my 3.4L build because flow was not exact spec. I just did not want to gamble at that time of build.

PM me if you need IRC's contact info.

Stay well Brother Karl,

Jim

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by DRACO A5OG

Brother Karl,

Others with more technical know how will chime in.

Couple of notes:

Spray pattern is important but as I understand it, the rate of flow is much more critical.

If I were you, I would take the old ones or the new ones and send to a company (like IRC ) that reconditions, test flow rates and confirm they are all within tolerance of each other.

This is what I did when I purchased known good reconditioned ones. Sent them out and tested. They passed.

Even the Buick plugs I used had similar spray nozzle but was in metal. I opted out of it when I did my 3.4L build because flow was not exact spec. I just did not want to gamble at that time of build.

PM me if you need IRC's contact info.

Stay well Brother Karl,

Jim

Thanks for input Brother Jim. Thought about cleaning old ones and decided to go for new. Price was great---now the tide has turned on me! Spent day looking for any injector with a similar "cup" and found NONE. That does not bode well. Contacted Carparts.com where I got these injectors and will see what comes of that. Would like to use these---but not moving forward until I feel confident these are not oddball rejects.

Again, appreciate you chiming in Brother Jim. Best!

.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by Discseven

Am checking with Bosch to see what's what.

Bosch just returned call. 0280150158 was discontinued in 2007. No replacement is being made.

Found Bosch's number being used by China company (molded on their injectors.) $25 per. Gotta wait 1 to 2 months for shipping. Their nozzle...



By no stretch of imagination am I injector savvy but I have no problem with this nozzle design. Does ANYONE see any logic behind the "cup?"

.

[Discseven]

Input on "cups" from Mr. Injector:

Hi Karl,

That is a common cap profile for Bosch 280-150-*** series injectors, although this injector looks like a Bosch copy, just make sure the cap is centered around the 4 discharge holes. The main job of the cap is to hold the lower O-ring in position. It may also provide some deposit resistance, but I don't know that for sure. Bill

Bill Johnson / Mr Injector
6280 N Government Way Unit 4
Dalton Gardens, Idaho 83815

With that, cupchit is put to rest. Am moving on with them---have advised Bill of this. (Requested him to put the brakes on me if there's ANY second thoughts.)

Thank you Bill.

.

[Discseven]

Movie in relentless loop won’t leave me in peace. Flick is drama of fuel exiting nozzle and making contact with cup’s lip---never a happy ending. Have I got this wrong? Maybe. Is there some aero-fuel dynamic happening here that makes this an exceptional injector? While Bill recognized cup config, I could NOT find another similar sample online to say “no worries, this is a common approach.” More, were this an aero-fuel-fantastico, high-end injector makers would be all over it. They’re NOT. One thing for sure in all this = I’ll have zero peace by leaving these cup hole diameters as they are. To that end...


EDIT: Smaller cup I started testing approach to hole widening before taking pic. Is reason it looks ragged.



Stock and replacement injectors. From this photo angle, what cup visually does is apparent.

.

[bigel]

Karl,

Many have their injectors serviced rather than purchasing aftermarket replacements

Here is a post I made back in 2018 about my experience with having my injectors refreshed: Injectors

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by bigel

Karl,

Many have their injectors serviced rather than purchasing aftermarket replacements

Here is a post I made back in 2018 about my experience with having my injectors refreshed: Injectors

Damm fine idea Steve! Knowing what I know now, am wishing that's the path I took some weeks ago. Instead, I thought new econ-injectors was way to go. Regret that choice now with vigor.

Have worked with Bill (Mr. Injector) before. Good guy. Had com with him concerning these new injector's cups & hole dimensions. Posted his response above in blue. Fact that he's NOT concerned quenched my concern. Still, I opened cup holes.

Am moving forward with new ones and saving old. If any running issue with new ones... old injectors go to Bill and I'll be reinstalling them (provided news is good from Bill conerning their status.)

There's a little more to go with build. Seems possible manifolds will return to engine next weekend. Am thinking if injectors are OK, engine will run fine from get go. If not, it's Billy-time.

.

[Otter74]

Just discovered this project/thread last night and thought I'd say I think it's super cool.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by Otter74

Just discovered this project/thread last night and thought I'd say I think it's super cool.

To ya Otter
.

[Discseven]

Ref.
.

[RDM]

Thatsalotta bad lookin' spray patterns. The 4-hole looks OK, though.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by RDM

Thatsalotta bad lookin' spray patterns. The 4-hole looks OK, though.

Dru... there was no clear comment with that image as to whether patterns were good or bad so posted to see what input would come here. If you're thinking 4-holer that's 2nd in from right... agree. 4th in from right is doing what I was concerned about---spray is hitting edge and dribbling. Albeit slightly, am not inclined to think that should happen at all.

Below is 4-holer from Witch Hunter site. https://www.witchhunter.com/spraypattern1.php Way they comment on images, I believe patterns shown are as they should be.


.

[aoncurly]

Is the use of dissimilar metals, particularly steel and aluminum a concern? It's something I always had to consider in exterior building design applications. The corrosion (if exposed to water) can be very aggressive and "weld" steel and aluminum parts together.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by aoncurly

Is the use of dissimilar metals, particularly steel and aluminum a concern? It's something I always had to consider in exterior building design applications. The corrosion (if exposed to water) can be very aggressive and "weld" steel and aluminum parts together.

Aon, is good point. If you're referring to fuel lines below manifolds...



One issue here may be the stainless steel tube nuts on the aluminum tubes. Put in calendar to check on those ends 1 year down road---thank you. Steel nipples are soldered to steel tubes. Plating on steel tubes was Scoth Pad'ed off... and all metal tube here was coated with Eastwoods Diamond Clear Satin. One reason to use rubber hose sections here was to enable steel tube at rail end so nipple could solder on. Then aluminum where tight, complex bends were put in tube to contour around bottom of manifolds---particularly on driver's side as fuel line needs to avoid throttle spring that runs from plate to hook-up below manifold. Tried steel for these sections. No happiness. Aluminum tube is cake-walk by comparrison.
.