HEAD STUDS: Can I check them engine in?

[thefaculty]

Hi everyone,

I am working through a winter list of oil leak fixes and as I continue to fall down the slippery slope it has been suggested to me that I should check the head studs. I have read a lot fo thread on this forum about doing it but my question is.... can I check this with the engine in the car and, if I can, could someone quickly walk me through how to check them?

Attached photo is my current stage (newbie first time doing any of this stuff):

• CIS is out
• CIS fuel lines and flex lines are being replaced.
• Vacuum lines have been replaced.
• Top of engine has been cleaned.
• Alternator has been rebuilt.
• Fan, housing and runners have been cleaned.
• Fan strap replaced.
• Injector sleeves will be replaced.
• Gaskets replaced.
• Idiot switch, thermostat, breather gasket and breather hoses all replaced.
• Intake runner gaskets replaced.
• Carrera Chain Tensioners will be installed.
• Oil Pressure Sender replaced.
• New engine mounts going in.
• EGR deleted.
• Engines shroud repainted.
• New spark leads, dizzy rotor and cap.
• New coil.
• New fuel pump

[wreckah]

sure, just pop the valve covers off, look for any loose/broken headstud heads and maybe torquecheck them.
perfect time to check valve lash as well.

[RetroSC]

Yes, you can. Just remove the valve covers and look for the barrel nuts holding the studs, 12 per side. If they're broken the nut will be loose in the hole. You can put a wrench on them, but don't try and torque them at all, just verify they're not loose.

[thefaculty]

Originally Posted by RetroSC

Yes, you can. Just remove the valve covers and look for the barrel nuts holding the studs, 12 per side. If they're broken the nut will be loose in the hole. You can put a wrench on them, but don't try and torque them at all, just verify they're not loose.

Awesome! Thank you!!

[thefaculty]

Originally Posted by RetroSC

Yes, you can. Just remove the valve covers and look for the barrel nuts holding the studs, 12 per side. If they're broken the nut will be loose in the hole. You can put a wrench on them, but don't try and torque them at all, just verify they're not loose.

Perfect, thanks! And again, another newbie question on this but top and bottom valve covers need to be removed to check? I have new gaskets to replace the old ones anyway so I guess it's kind of a mute point but I'm interested to know.

[RetroSC]

yup, both top and bottom, 6 up top 6 on bottom!

[RedCoupe]

Originally Posted by RetroSC

yup, both top and bottom, 6 up top 6 on bottom!

But then you have a chance to adjust the valves!

[NYNick]

Well, I'm not sure about 3.0's, but I just did this on my 2.4.

I guess people call them barrel headed nuts, but they're not easily seen or reachable. They're 10mm Allen headed studs and you need a 6 inch long Allen wrench to get to them.

Here's the procedure I followed:

Drain all the oil
Remove all the valve covers
Buy or have on hand a 6 inch long 10mm Allen wrench, ratchet headed.
Have on hand a torque wrench. You'll need a small one also to get to the upper head studs because a large torque wrench doesn't fit in the tight spaces in the engine bay.
The torque setting for head studs in my 2.4 engine is 24 foot pounds. Check yours.
Get an inspection mirror and/or a good light and look deep inside the valve cover area. Way back there next to the spark plugs you should see 10MM Allen headed studs. Those are your babies. 6 per valve cover. 12 up/12 down. 24 total.
Insert your Allen wrench and make sure it sets inside the stud head.

Now, here's the sphincter tightening part. You need to decide whether you're going to re-torque them or just check to see if they're broken. A very well known Master Porsche Mechanic friend of mine told me to re-torque them. It was a pee in the pants moment, believe me, but I trusted him.

But first, I just gently tried them to see if they were loose. Since nothing moved, I GENTLY torqued them to 24 foot pounds. Mind you, my engine had had case savers installed years ago.

Each one I worked on and discovered wasn't broken felt like a Grand Slam. I kept track of each stud by taking notes. Sure enough when I was done, 17 out of 24 studs accepted being re-torqued. In other words, they moved and tightened, while 7 just torqued right away.

After this was done, I adjusted the valves. No sense doing them first if you've re-torqued the head studs.

This was a good day in the garage. I'm not sure about 3.0's. Maybe John Walker Workshop could chime in on the recommendation of re-torquing yours or not. PM him?

Good luck

Nick

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by NYNick

Well, I'm not sure about 3.0's, but I just did this on my 2.4.

They are definitely not barrel nuts, and they're not easily seen or reachable. They're 10mm Allen headed studs and you need a 6 inch long Allen wrench to get to them.

Nick

When they break, the allen head nut is still attached to the piece of stud so it resembles a barrell nut is what I think he meant..

[SCadaddle]

Originally Posted by RetroSC

yup, both top and bottom, 6 up top 6 on bottom!

On an SC you only need to remove the lower valve covers to find if you have any broken or missing head studs. They will be the 6 barrel nuts on the 6 studs across the bottom on each side of the engine. The upper studs are under the upper valve cover; they are steel and not prone to break.

[RetroSC]

Yes, on my 67 with al case and all steel studs I did retorque. But on a 2.7 or 3.0 SC I might be a little scared to try and go to full torque. The SC's can sometimes have the old Dilivar studs on the exhaust side and those can get brittle, while 2.7's might be prone to pulling threads. So on both I'd just verify they're tight, maybe 10ft lbs or so. I'll actually be doing this on my 2.7 shortly, fingers crossed!

Originally Posted by NYNick

Well, I'm not sure about 3.0's, but I just did this on my 2.4.

I guess people call them barrel headed nuts, but they're not easily seen or reachable. They're 10mm Allen headed studs and you need a 6 inch long Allen wrench to get to them.

Here's the procedure I followed:

Drain all the oil
Remove all the valve covers
Buy or have on hand a 6 inch long 10mm Allen wrench, ratchet headed.
Have on hand a torque wrench. You'll need a small one also to get to the upper head studs because a large torque wrench doesn't fit in the tight spaces in the engine bay.
The torque setting for head studs in my 2.4 engine is 24 foot pounds. Check yours.
Get an inspection mirror and/or a good light and look deep inside the valve cover area. Way back there next to the spark plugs you should see 10MM Allen headed studs. Those are your babies. 6 per valve cover. 12 up/12 down. 24 total.
Insert your Allen wrench and make sure it sets inside the stud head.

Now, here's the sphincter tightening part. You need to decide whether you're going to re-torque them or just check to see if they're broken. A very well known Master Porsche Mechanic friend of mine told me to re-torque them. It was a pee in the pants moment, believe me, but I trusted him.

But first, I just gently tried them to see if they were loose. Since nothing moved, I GENTLY torqued them to 24 foot pounds. Mind you, my engine had had case savers installed years ago.

Each one I worked on and discovered wasn't broken felt like a Grand Slam. I kept track of each stud by taking notes. Sure enough when I was done, 17 out of 24 studs accepted being re-torqued. In other words, they moved and tightened, while 7 just torqued right away.

After this was done, I adjusted the valves. No sense doing them first if you've re-torqued the head studs.

This was a good day in the garage. I'm not sure about 3.0's. Maybe John Walker Workshop could chime in on the recommendation of re-torquing yours or not. PM him?

Good luck

Nick

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by RetroSC

Yes, on my 67 with al case and all steel studs I did retorque. But on a 2.7 or 3.0 SC I might be a little scared to try and go to full torque. The SC's can sometimes have the old Dilivar studs on the exhaust side and those can get brittle, while 2.7's might be prone to pulling threads. So on both I'd just verify they're tight, maybe 10ft lbs or so. I'll actually be doing this on my 2.7 shortly, fingers crossed!

More detail...my engine had been rebuilt to 2.7 RS specs. He was smart enough to put case savers in it, but they were still using Dilivar so there are 24 of those in there too.

Now you understand further my pee in the pants moments, but my friend is a lifelong Porsche Master Mechanic, so I went with his recommendation and it worked out.

[Trackrash]

Originally Posted by NYNick

More detail...my engine had been rebuilt to 2.7 RS specs. He was smart enough to put case savers in it, but they were still using Dilivar so there are 24 of those in there too.

Now you understand further my pee in the pants moments, but my friend is a lifelong Porsche Master Mechanic, so I went with his recommendation and it worked out.

Your motor had steel studs originally. Those are bullet proof and last for ever.

Are you saying that during the rebuild those were replaced with dilivar? Are you sure? I'm not sure why anyone would do that, IMO.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by Trackrash

Your motor had steel studs originally. Those are bullet proof and last for ever.

Are you saying that during the rebuild those were replaced with dilivar? Are you sure? I'm not sure why anyone would do that, IMO.

I am sure. Opinion on steel versus Dilivar has changed over the years. Dilivar used to be the way to go. Then opinion went back to OEM steel.

However, I have been assured that Dilivar is fine with Case Savers. This is the combo they used during the rebuild. They're all in good shape and even re-torqued.

Nick

[thefaculty]

Originally Posted by NYNick

Well, I'm not sure about 3.0's, but I just did this on my 2.4.

I guess people call them barrel headed nuts, but they're not easily seen or reachable. They're 10mm Allen headed studs and you need a 6 inch long Allen wrench to get to them.

Here's the procedure I followed:

Drain all the oil
Remove all the valve covers
Buy or have on hand a 6 inch long 10mm Allen wrench, ratchet headed.
Have on hand a torque wrench. You'll need a small one also to get to the upper head studs because a large torque wrench doesn't fit in the tight spaces in the engine bay.
The torque setting for head studs in my 2.4 engine is 24 foot pounds. Check yours.
Get an inspection mirror and/or a good light and look deep inside the valve cover area. Way back there next to the spark plugs you should see 10MM Allen headed studs. Those are your babies. 6 per valve cover. 12 up/12 down. 24 total.
Insert your Allen wrench and make sure it sets inside the stud head.

Now, here's the sphincter tightening part. You need to decide whether you're going to re-torque them or just check to see if they're broken. A very well known Master Porsche Mechanic friend of mine told me to re-torque them. It was a pee in the pants moment, believe me, but I trusted him.

But first, I just gently tried them to see if they were loose. Since nothing moved, I GENTLY torqued them to 24 foot pounds. Mind you, my engine had had case savers installed years ago.

Each one I worked on and discovered wasn't broken felt like a Grand Slam. I kept track of each stud by taking notes. Sure enough when I was done, 17 out of 24 studs accepted being re-torqued. In other words, they moved and tightened, while 7 just torqued right away.

After this was done, I adjusted the valves. No sense doing them first if you've re-torqued the head studs.

This was a good day in the garage. I'm not sure about 3.0's. Maybe John Walker Workshop could chime in on the recommendation of re-torquing yours or not. PM him?

Good luck

Nick

This isa great help Nick! Thanks mate! I'll follow al you have said here and reach out to JW!

[thefaculty]

Originally Posted by SCadaddle

On an SC you only need to remove the lower valve covers to find if you have any broken or missing head studs. They will be the 6 barrel nuts on the 6 studs across the bottom on each side of the engine. The upper studs are under the upper valve cover; they are steel and not prone to break.

HUGE HELP! Thanks mate!!

[Jack Stands]

Dilivar was thought to be the way to go, but they get brittle an snap. Casesavers will prevent the studs from pulling out of the case, but won’t affect the studs snapping. I used the Supertec studs when we rebuilt a 2.7 about six years ago, so I hope that was a wise decision.