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Dreading doing the window motors....
So I had a local shop that I know look at the car to see why the windows wont go down. He came back with the conclusion that both window motors are bad. He didn't charge me to check them out but said it would be about 2.5 hours per side plus the motors.
I really want my windows to work but I dont want to shell out that kind of money because it sounds like $500 to $600 just in labor. Is this a job I can tackle at home or am I getting in over my head. |
I’m not going to lie to you, the job really sucks: getting those motors out is a real bare.
However: I am going to guess that this car is not a daily driver, and can be down for a bit, because ...well... it’s a 911. All this said: if your motors are really cooked you are in for an expensive adventure any way you roll it (pun intended). Here’s my suggestion: Do it yourself. Taking the door ‘card’ off (for noobs) is about half the battle. Once you get into the “door guts” you will have an appreciation for what it takes to have made these regulators work about 4 decades ago. (Thanks, Brose.....). If you have the 101 book - and a decent multimeter should get you set in the right direction. I recap removing and getting the motor working right in my little thread that I will be updating again in a moment. |
The motors are very reliable so that would be really unsusual for them both to fail at the same time. I would wager that that is not the problem. If you understand basic electric and can use a meter, there is no reason you cant do the check yourself. First step pull the switches see if they have power if so see if they are sending it to the motor when you throw the switches
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I took it to a guy that does auto electric and he said everything checked out so it had to be the motors. The car sat for about 3 years prior to my Dad’s passing. He was too sick to drive the car and no one else messed with it.
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Before doing anything else, I would still start by checking for power at the window switches per my suggestion on your other thread.
(http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1056735-power-window-help.html) Let us know what you find -- also, might be helpful going forward to continue this topic on a single thread. |
I am going to second the statement of Jeff: those motors are pretty stout. I had a piece of ...something... stuck in the core-lamina where the copper winding goes, and it was running just reallllllllllllllllll lllllll llllllllllllllllyyyyyyyy slow, but still ran.
Chip at this job slow and steady..... My SC sat for near a decade between starts .... I don’t think that the windows moved during that time either. |
Give the motor a good whack with a plastic or rubber mallet while holding the switch down. Chances are good that both of them will start working again. Then cycle it quite a few times to get the corrosion off of the commutator.
You should have seen the look of relief on the customer's face when I'd do that in the service drive (a strategically located fist bump on the door panel). It worked MOST of the time, then send them on their merry way. Yes, we didn't like changing window motors either. |
I have replaced a window motor, so I think anyone else who is even mildly mechanically-inclined should be able to do so, too. It's a PITA, but it's not difficult. While you're there, if you have power door locks it might be worth your while to replace the nylon ball-and-socket connector (it's a 50-cent part).
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Worked on the passenger window for the nth time yesterday. If you have the tool kit, there's an allen wrench that you can insert in the center of the gear to manually wind the window down. (Thanks to Jlex) If the electrics are good, a little coaxing might do the trick.
If it doesn't work, then you'll have to take out the motor and test it. John Walker had a tip on fixing the motor. Can't seem to find it in my bookmarks but you can check my posts. It's on one of them. Before taking out the door cards, make sure the switches are working. I am aware that your guy said they're okay. I'd confirm it myself. The wiring diagrams are on numerous threads. Good luck. |
I do have 12v to the switch at pin5 with chassis ground and with pin4 ground
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Another example of the piss poor documentation of these cars. Been here for 6 years, and never saw even one thread of someone posting photos or video of how to remove the door card or replace the regulator or motor.
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I've pulled the complete window motor/regulator from the passenger door to replace the often snapped spring tensioner pin.
It is a pita but doable....there are a few threads on the subject here if you search for them....if you decide to tackle the job I am available for more info..... BTW, both of my original motors work fine after 37 years...they are robust so check everything electrical first and manipulate the regulator/window support arms some to make sure they are not frozen in place. |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgxDCrLptzA https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/bob_tindel/911_door_panel_remove.htm Lash |
Here are the rest of the Dean Stewart videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTP2CPryNOdZJAaIH_TE9Lw/videos?view=0&sort=p&flow=grid |
First, "both" window motors not working doesn't sound good to me. One not working would be more plausible. If you don't do it yourself, I suggest you require photos of the work being done so you have a record of it for your service file. It's also a guarantee the motors were actually changed. And get the old motors. They're easy to take apart for a look see.
Secondly, it's possible to change window motors without taking the door apart. Am referring to an '80 or similar 911 window config. You've got to have a speaker hole in each door card to access the motors. This route is far easier than taking the door apart but requires working blind (by touch) having a small camera, and knowing how to deal with getting the motor shaft correctly back into the window's gearbox. (Gearbox is NOT removed doing it this way.) In a nutshell, there's a floating ball in the gear box with a through-hole that the end of the motor's shaft needs to enter. If this ball's hole goes out of alignment for any reason when the motor is removed or when the shaft is reentering---and it can because the ball floats---the ball has to be repositioned---and it can be. I've done window motor changes both ways. If my motor toasted again, I'd speaker hole it without thinking twice. Advantage to taking door apart is having both motor and gearbox in hand. Gearboxes have gaskets that shrink and pull in allowing the gearbox's grease to escape. |
I just cant seem to believe that both motors would be bad. Ive spoken to alot of people who say the motors are robust and prices are crazy. Each motor is about $400-600 so Id be around a grand just in parts alone.
If I have power at the switch, is there anything else downstream from that between the switch and the motor? Something like another fuse or relay or something |
you could try applying power directly to one of the motors to see if isolating it out of the circuit lets it work -- could be good first step to try in conjunction with a nice "whack" as referenced above --
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I'll find it extremely rare that both window motors are bad........ I've been thru this already. I'm not biting on replacing both.
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Window motors.
I agree with Jeff Burger-Both motors-I don't think so.
pm sent. Gerry |
I learned sitting in my driveway with a manual, knowing that I couldn't be in a hurry because I couldn't afford to fix any mistakes. You've got a whole board of mentors here, you've seen a need. Take a chance- we'll get you through.
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I pulled the door panel off and found some interesting things.
1. The door is covered in dynamat. (I noticed the floors of the car were dynamat'd as well so someone at some point was obsessed with dynamat) 2. I have been trying to figure out why my power mirrors dont work and I am missing the left and right switch over switch on the dash. Well, I think at some point some one changed the mirror out to manual mirrors and just left the door controller for looks because there are no wires running to it. 3. It looks like the car has power door locks. Im not sure if this is factory but it looks aftermarket. I cant seem to lock the drivers door so I dont know if the cylinder is frozen or not. I am going to disconnect the arm from the power lock mechanism and see if it works cause maybe the mechanism is frozen.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1586018764.jpg |
I opened up the door and took a hammer and tapped the motor while pressing the down switch and the window started to roll down
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If you can loosen the nuts and bolts that hold the motor in place, clean with contact cleaner and then tighten. Some motors use frame ground and if this applies to your car you may solve the problem your having.
Current has to pass through the motor and back to the battery in order for the motor to turn. You are on the right track. Also both motors (driver and Passenger) may use the same ground, not sure what year pcar you have. Also check out this old thread..... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/288567-power-window-switch-schematic-2.html Big hammers help solve a lot of problems Lash |
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So I pulled the motor out anyway. It was working but it was working real slow. I took the motor apart and bench teated it and it seems to spin fine. I am going to remove the track and then clean and grease everythinghttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1586034189.jpg
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The window is real slow and wont go up without help. I think the motor is just shot.
I was looking online and new OEM motors are about $400 but I found Dansk motors for $140. Has anyone ever used these? Are they good |
I dont know about Dansk but you can probably find some good oem used ones from a member here. Post the year coupe or targa or even better the motor part numbers. just make sure you do your homework on the seller.
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You pulled the motor (electrical portion) ... but the reason that these window systems slow is because of what is going on inside the worm-wheel area as well as the actual mechanism itself.
On mine, I had a ton of sticky grease all over the place that was working as a bit of a resistance. Pull the reg, you’ve come this far. Clean it (think green scrubby pad on the pall-gear and WD) and then hit the pivot points with a graphite type of lube. The windows aren’t ever going to go up and down like anything modern, but getting them to work *correctly* is nice. Also, in the rear track (at least in mine — both sides) there was a bunch of dirt and again sticky grease: I hit that area with a toothbrush and then things worked much better. Also: ...on the top of that shaft is a “tip support” for the armature. Do NOT lose that when putting this back together. Your motor will be a real mess to make work and you will be back to “square 1” |
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Feel around in the bottom of the door for some metal bits that look like a 1/2 in round post with a notch cut. These often break and then you get that result. Then you must remove the whole deal and replace them...motor and arms/mechanism etc. I did not purchase replacement parts but made my own from a bolt/small steel sleeve. My very slow window now works perfectly.....this is more than likely your issue. https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/664473-slow-window-fix.html |
I did pull the entire regulator mechanism out of the drivers door. Cleaned it, greased it and it didnt look like anything was missing. When I bench tested the motor it would run quick for a second and the slow down. The regulator looked good but it did have some old earwax looking grease. I cleaned the rear window channel as well.
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Yes it will partially unwind and rest on the mounting pillar as in the picture...it actually looks correct unless you know what to look for. All of your 'symptoms' are indicative of having that slotted pin missing...it was a press fit and they often pop off. I used a bolt ( octagon head ground down for clearance) with a metal round sleeve and locktighted nut on top...to the proper height.... that booger will not break. |
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Post some pictures of your mech. I’d be willing to bet that the pin for the clock-spring is either broken, missing or there is something that is supposed to be there that is missing.
Also: how is that worm-wheel area looking in that motor? I’d bet there is a mess of grease that is not exactly doing it’s job (ie: it is of the consistency of 3 day old grits, without butter). If it makes you feel any better: there was a time that anyone who had any kind of sound system would also pay $$$$$$$$ for the dyno-mat to be installed everywhere. The old stuff kind of reminded me of the material consistency of a fruit-roll-up. Getting THAT out of your way would be a complete mess, and is precisely what I encountered in the corvette when I had to do some work on the interior. I don’t know if you will get anything better by purchasing a new WR motor, from Dansk or from Porsche; just my $0.02. |
So I dove in to the windows once again today because I wasnt sure if the pin for the spring was missing. Sure enough, it was so I built a new one in the same way that Reiver did.
I cleaned all the tracks and lubed everything. It was really dirty inside with grease that looked like ear wax. It was old. While I was in there I decided to rebuild my motors after watching a few Youtube videos. Now, the drivers side window works flawlessly. The passenger side window works even better but only when I jump it. Both passenger side switches do not work but the window goes up and down just fine if I jumper the leads. I swapped. Both switches in to the driver side and they both worked fine so its not the switches. Is there something Im missing? |
Here is a picture of the regulator with the pin for the spring rebuilt. I used loctite and a lock nut to make sure they dont come off again.
You can see in picture #1 where it is missing. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1586141862.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1586141862.jpg |
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Seems like a silly design that doesn't do anything |
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