Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 4.00 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
steely's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: sectors R&N, SE Pa
Posts: 3,119
OLD THREAD ALERT
robhamster,
burn out the motor? anything is possible, but power would have to be continually applied, and unless the switch is held or is shorted, this wouldn't happen.
There is no integral limit/cutoff switch.

Easiest way to check for drain might be to pop the fuse or relay.
Or pull the connector off of the motor (kind of a pain in the door if the plastic tit is locked position). Easier if you pull the motor, but it's recommended that you drop the regulator half way (catch 22) to get access to remove the motor.

Or pull the switch connector, but hook them back up when you're done (hot at least when driving and could short).
hth

__________________
Dan

'87 Targa Carrera 3.2 - Fabspeed Cat Bypass, M&K Muffler, SW Chip
Venetian Blue
Old 04-26-2010, 03:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
Registered
 
robhamster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 364
Thanks,

On my car I have always been able to put the windows down without the key in from the drivers side controls. I think the driver side switch for the passenger window was stuck and the motor may have burned out that way. I will check all fuses. Sounds like testing the motor is a PITA but I will study on it further before doing too much damage.
__________________
1984 3.2 Cab (now toy)
1975 911S (old toy)
Mercedes E350 W4 (snow car)
2007 911 Turbo (water and air pumper)
2012 Panamera 4S (for the wife, I swear)
Old 04-26-2010, 07:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
avt007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Langley BC
Posts: 208
Garage
On my 86, the dead battery was caused by the door jam switches (the ones that put the interior lights on). Porsche has had several different setups over the years, but in my 86, the power to the windows remained available after the ignition was turned off, until you open the door. The relay was supposed to relax at that point. My bad switches didn't turn off the relay, and the current required to keep the relay energized, would kill the battery.
__________________
Rob
76 widebody project
86 Carrera Coupe
01 BMW X5
98 Jaguar XJ8
Old 04-26-2010, 10:30 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
poorsche930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 307
I hate my 930's power windows. They make me want to take a hammer to my roof.
__________________
Ryan
79 930..... among other fine German cars.
Old 04-27-2010, 07:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 290
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by avt007 View Post
the beauty of these switches are that they can be disassembled and cleaned. I've repaired mine that way, saved a lot of time and a few bucks, too.
can you share this process?
Old 04-28-2010, 07:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #25 (permalink)
Registered
 
robhamster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 364
I changed the switch on the drivers door and the window still did not work, so I went to my local Porsche wrench who checked all the connections and it turns out the motor was not turning.

I pulled the motor tonight and it must have a loose brush because it works intermittently. I will pull the housing off and see about rehabbing the motor before I give up and order a new one.
__________________
1984 3.2 Cab (now toy)
1975 911S (old toy)
Mercedes E350 W4 (snow car)
2007 911 Turbo (water and air pumper)
2012 Panamera 4S (for the wife, I swear)
Old 04-28-2010, 08:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #26 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
avt007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Langley BC
Posts: 208
Garage
I don't have any pictures, but as memory serves, there are two slots on the switch where you can insert a small screwdriver and carefully pry it apart. From there you need to watch where the pieces go as you pull it open.
The main bits are brass arms or levers that rock back and forth. On one switch, polishing the contacts was enough, and on the other, arcing had occurred, damaging it. In that case it was possible to turn that piece over ( or end for end, I forget) which then put a clean unused area into play.
Sorry if that isn't clear enough, but search around, maybe someone has pics.
The switches aren't expensive, but I fixed mine in 15 minutes, versus waiting a week to get them shipped from our host.
__________________
Rob
76 widebody project
86 Carrera Coupe
01 BMW X5
98 Jaguar XJ8
Old 04-29-2010, 05:13 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Maple Valley, WA
Posts: 30
Garage
Porsche Crest

This was a nice thread that helped me troubleshoot my window. Thanks for everyone's contributions. So although old, I'll continue on with it to provide findings of my issue which will hopefully help someone with these pesky switch issues.

Issue #1: Passenger window would not roll up or down using either driver side or passenger side switch. I was getting power to the driver side, but not to the passenger side.
Root Cause #1: The driver side window switch that did not properly pass power through the switch to the passenger side switch. When in the neutral state, the switch acts as a power "pass-through" for the opposing side switch. I found that when toggling the switch, the side switching to the ground (1-4 or 2-x) would not properly seat itself back in the neutral position (1-3 or 2-5) and would remain open. If I jiggled the switch it'd settle back to normal and it'd have continuity for the power circuit. The switch seemed to be overcome by friction either in the plastic housing or on the spring-mounted contact posts that wouldn't allow it to return easily to neutral... or tolerances were just off.
Corrective Action #1: After I disassembled the switch, as much as I tried, I couldn't fix the switch for this issue. I tried adding solder to the tops of the terminals, or slightly bending the teeter-totter, but nothing worked. I simply moved it to the driver side window which doesn't require this "pass-through" feature.
Issue #2: Same is first really, but probably would only result in one direction not working (up/down) if all else worked. I found all root causes at the same time after removing the switch and dismantling.
Root Cause #2: The switch also did not properly ground the (X) post to the copper bridge to (4). These posts are mechanically locked, are not soldered, and are thus prone to intermittent opens. See picture.
Corrective Action #2: I added solder to the posts. Every post. I figured it'd happen to others eventually.
I've had repeated issues with these switches. Not the best design, in my opinion. In addition to soldering the posts, I'd probably solder a small spring to each power post to allow for a bit of play in the switch in the neutral position. Maybe next time.

__________________
Jeremy

1987 Porsche 911
Old 02-21-2011, 07:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Peoples Republic of Long Beach, NY
Posts: 21,143
i might as well try to earn my keep








__________________
Ronin LB
'77 911s 2.7
PMO E 8.5
SSI Monty
MSD JPI
w x6
Old 02-21-2011, 10:26 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #29 (permalink)
Registered User
 
roodog911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Posts: 220
My driver's side power window will not go up or down. Test light shows power available to posts on the switch. I exchanged with the switch from the passenger door with no improvement. I tried a jumper from the ground pin to the body without any success.

Am I correct in assuming the most likely problem is the motor itself?

Any tips and thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Willie
__________________
"Circumstances may cause interruptions and delays, but never lose sight of your goal." Mario Andretti

'84 Targa
Old 08-20-2011, 01:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #30 (permalink)
Registered
 
robhamster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Littleton, Colorado
Posts: 364
Willie,

Who needs a window, especially in a Targa?

Check the motor per my previous post. I needed new brushes and John Eisenbud was very helpful once I got the motor out. There is a safety fuse in our cars that goes off and he pulled it out, put new brushes in and my motor works wonderful. I want to rehab the other door now, especially on a cold morning.

Maybe see you tomorrow, with your window in some position!

PM me and I might be able to come by and offer assistance
__________________
1984 3.2 Cab (now toy)
1975 911S (old toy)
Mercedes E350 W4 (snow car)
2007 911 Turbo (water and air pumper)
2012 Panamera 4S (for the wife, I swear)
Old 08-20-2011, 02:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #31 (permalink)
Registered
 
86 911 Targa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Manhattan Beach, California. Factory Delivery-Original owner-Retired engineer
Posts: 5,081
Window Switches.

For the 3.2 Folks. (And perhaps others)







__________________
1986 911 Targa.
Per Road and Track magazine:
Only in L.A.:
In the window of a bar in Hermosa Beach, California.
"Happy Hour prices during all car chases."

Last edited by 86 911 Targa; 08-20-2011 at 05:19 PM..
Old 08-20-2011, 03:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #32 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
tazzieman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 1,326
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtkkz View Post
It use to work fine till I removed it to replace my door panel...

2 nights ago I removed my driver side door panel to grease the lock and install a speaker. Easy , until you try to route the new wires through the grommets into the cabin !
Up til midnight and next day found the passenger side window would not work - well the passenger switch wound it down, but then not up!

Even though it turned out it was just a ground spade connector that had pulled off , the problem was that there is no free cable play and a springy rubber boot around the terminals - extremely frustrated by lack of access and I really didn't want to disassemble the other switch to gain more room!

So I scribbled down the wire positions , sliced the boot for better access and invented some new words as my oversized fingers eventually pushed the terminals back on.

Then , I stripped the bolts holding the door handle on.
Another late night...

Why is it that these little jobs turn into while your there's, and not infrequently a visit from Mr Sod enacting his Law?

I tell my wife that mechanics are the most patient people in the world and that this is good for my psychological development.

The moral? Remove that door card at own risk!
__________________
'81 924 , '85 944 , '78 911SC , '82 928 5.0L
"They run best being run close to the ‘limit’ and done so regularly" - Grady
Old 08-20-2011, 06:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #33 (permalink)
Registered User
 
roodog911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Posts: 220
Hi Rob thanks for the feed back on Eisenbud and his being able to fix your motor ... definitley something to consider.

The car is scheduled into Eurosport this week to have the old muffler replaced with a Bursch I picked up from Tom. So I'll have them pull the regulator and see what can be done with the motor .... damned COPD has really reduced what I can do on my own.

I'll see you this morning for the triple bipass run to Breckenridge ... always one of the best Breakfast club runs of the year.

Side glass is at half mast ... is half full or half empty ? I hope to get back to town before the afternoon rains hit.

86 911 Targa, thanks for the pics and schematic that was a help to me yesterday and I'm sure it will benefit others as well.

Also a big thanks to all those that posted to this thread and shared their knowledge and experiences ... this is a great community and old threads never die ...

Tazzieman - I'm sure we all share your frustration with the lack of wire length ...
Willie
__________________
"Circumstances may cause interruptions and delays, but never lose sight of your goal." Mario Andretti

'84 Targa
Old 08-21-2011, 03:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #34 (permalink)
Registered User
 
roodog911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Posts: 220
submitted twice in error
__________________
"Circumstances may cause interruptions and delays, but never lose sight of your goal." Mario Andretti

'84 Targa
Old 08-21-2011, 03:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #35 (permalink)
Registered User
 
DSPTurtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Suntree, Florida, USA
Posts: 2,265
Great thread!!! Just used the photos and schematics to hook up a missing window switch. Worked first time. Thanks!!!
__________________
JB - BreitWerks
www.breitwerks.com
321-806-8664
Engine Rebuild & Restorations
Old 09-09-2011, 07:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #36 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1
I read thru this entire thread, didn't see a case that fits mine, so I'd thought I'd ask.... 1983 911 convertible, passenger window was slow in the move for a while, then both windows became stuck in the off position. I pulled both door panels, no power (with key on, and power is going thru fuse) to any of the switches. I ran a dedicated 12v lead to the drivers side switches, still no window operation. I then added a dedicated ground from the brown lead - which immediately become glowing red hot... If the passenger side motor is dead, could it cause this kind of effect?

Obviously I have little electrical experience. I have been unable to find the grounds of this looped circuit (one by the gas filler cap, and one in each door) that another thread describes. The only loose wire I can find is the "resonance sensor" on the inside of the passenger door panel.

Any help is appreciated 1million times over. Cell is 817.291.6595 if someone happens on this question today (9-25), Im working on it today
Old 09-25-2011, 06:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #37 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Dallas
Posts: 3,283
Does the first diagram in this thread apply to later models, such as my '88? I'm trying to solve a bizarre problem with my windows and want to use the diagram but only if it applies to my car. Also, is the diagram representing all switches? For some reason when wired up correctly my car will lower the pass. window with the passenger side switch but it won't go UP using the switch. I've put 2 or 3 new switches in and the same thing happens. Whats really odd is if I switch the blue and blue/black wires to each others tabs on the switch I can lower the window fine by depressing the switch as if I was lowering the window. This is confusing the hell out of me.
__________________
Buck
'88 Coupe, '87 Cab,
'88 535i sold, '19 GLC 300 DD
Warren Hall, gone but not forgotten
Old 06-16-2012, 07:58 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #38 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St Louis
Posts: 4,213
I think it applied to my 88 but it has been a while.

Did you try one of the good switches in the drivers door?
__________________
Rick
88 Cab
Old 06-16-2012, 08:56 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #39 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Dallas
Posts: 3,283
I have tried a couple of other switches and same problem. I have been "testing" the switches and as far as I can tell they are working as designed. I seem to have continuity between the hard wired connections and I get continuity when the lever is moved in either direction. Electronics confuse the heck out of me though so maybe I'm not doing it right. I keep having the identical symptoms even with different switches. Not sure if I mentioned this but the drivers side switch for the pass. door does not seem to work at all but that's confusing since I can get the pass. window to go up and down by reversing the blue wires...that would indicate there's nothing wrong with the driver door switch for the pass. door....correct?

__________________
Buck
'88 Coupe, '87 Cab,
'88 535i sold, '19 GLC 300 DD
Warren Hall, gone but not forgotten
Old 06-16-2012, 09:10 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #40 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:13 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.