Recaro Pole Position '87 Carrera install best practices? Southbound Trimmers mounts?

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by group911@aol.co

You should be able to get an upholstery shop to shorten and stitch it up for you.

Interesting. I hadn't thought of that. Thanks!

I seem to recall HMS Motorsport telling me way back in the day that they used an Ambulance supply shop that was well versed in sewing tow straps. But, I'll try my local upholstery shops first.

[AutoXer23]

Originally Posted by famoroso

Makes sense, thx.

For the ABEs, I assume I want this seatbelt buckle receptacle...



...inside the seat bolster (versus outside)? Like this...





If so, I doubt the above pictured rigid 10" long receptacle is the correct piece as, once mounted to the Carrera RS anchor, I doubt it would make the bend through the opening and into the inside of the seat bolster. I suppose a non-rigid version is what I need. If so, anybody have a part number?

If not, am I thinking about it incorrectly and should the receptacle be outboard?...

First off I must say that is one of the most beautiful 911s I've seen. I'm a little torn about the seatbelt buckle locations. I like it tucked in but my concern is that it might rub and tear the seat. JMO

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by AutoXer23

First off I must say that is one of the most beautiful 911s I've seen. I'm a little torn about the seatbelt buckle locations. I like it tucked in but my concern is that it might rub and tear the seat. JMO

If it ends up inside I'll try and space the receptacle itself such that it sits below the top of the bolster, just over my hip point and then I'll put some adhesive felt where it contacts the seat in an effort to protect the leather.

[BuddaLun]

Frank - Dif you find an elegant solution with the seatbelt receptacle? TIA.

[Bill Verburg]

How does the belt lie when a person is in the seat? Don't for get the angle into the receptacle, it needs to be ) to slightly inboard or undue stress can be placed on the components



In this pic it looks like a rear receptacle, I removed the plastic sheath to get better angles, the whole unit can be extended w/ a steel shackle strap if necessary

[famoroso]

Thanks for checking in. I'm still at the same place I was in November. Standard Carrera RS inboard seatbelt receptacle mount and the stock rear seatbelt receptacle with the plastic sheath removed.

The two handed operation is a bit awkward, but works, for now.

If anything, I'd like the receptacle to be shorter, like the one on my Lotus Elise.




I may see if that one works too. It has a shorter overall length as the receptacle itself bolts to the mount. Unlike the Porsche rear receptacle that has a length of webbing and a separate mounting tab.

I may also reach out to Car Bone to see if they have anything that may work better.

[group911@aol.co]

The one in the second picture looks like a bad solution for getting the belt released. Emergency or not.

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

How does the belt lie when a person is in the seat? Don't for get the angle into the receptacle, it needs to be ) to slightly inboard or undue stress can be placed on the components



In this pic it looks like a rear receptacle, I removed the plastic sheath to get better angles, the whole unit can be extended w/ a steel shackle strap if necessary

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by group911@aol.co

The one in the second picture looks like a bad solution for getting the belt released. Emergency or not.

Yeah, a little bit longer or a little bit shorter (like the Lotus receptacle I posted) would be better.

Bill,

I know what a steel shackle is. What's a steel shackle strap? Got link?

Frank

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by famoroso

Yeah, a little bit longer or a little bit shorter (like the Lotus receptacle I posted) would be better.

Bill,

I know what a steel shackle is. What's a steel shackle strap? Got link?

Frank

Same thing I was just fishing for a good descriptive

W/ mine it is maybe a tad short but no worse than the setup in my Toyota truck, those who are overweight or at least wide in the beam will have an issue though

[trentwat]

Famoroso...FWIW...I too recently purchased Recaro PP ABEs through FVD Brombacher...I asked if I could go with the lighter, less involved, lower priced slider and aluminum side mount, and the techs in Germany insisted the ABEs had to be ordered with a more involved kit. The slider has the receptacle mount welded on, so no add on and washers...I thought this might be for TUV regulations, but maybe it also has to do with the length of the receptacle. Part #: 869 426.



They are not installed yet, so I can’t be sure...but I definitely recall the ABEs had larger lap belt holes to accommodate for the belt to be inside the bolster. I did see a different post a few months ago, where there was challenges with the install of these sliders (not all elements in the kit are used, so it looks a little confusing)...I’m hoping mines goes better.

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by trentwat

Famoroso...FWIW...I too recently purchased Recaro PP ABEs through FVD Brombacher...I asked if I could go with the lighter, less involved, lower priced slider and aluminum side mount, and the techs in Germany insisted the ABEs had to be ordered with a more involved kit. The slider has the receptacle mount welded on, so no add on and washers...I thought this might be for TUV regulations, but maybe it also has to do with the length of the receptacle. Part #: 869 426.



They are not installed yet, so I can’t be sure...but I definitely recall the ABEs had larger lap belt holes to accommodate for the belt to be inside the bolster. I did see a different post a few months ago, where there was challenges with the install of these sliders (not all elements in the kit are used, so it looks a little confusing)...I’m hoping mines goes better.

That is excellent!

It does look a lot more involved and since the piece you highlight is sandwiched between the side bracket and slider, it'll still raise the seat.

This type of info is precisely what I'd hoped this thread would reveal.

I am off to research!

Also, I ordered a set of Pole Position ABE Carbon seats for my newly acquired '89. So, I've got four seats to mount now!

[Locker537]

Following along as I'd like to figure out a better receptacle solution for my setup.

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by trentwat

Famoroso...FWIW...I too recently purchased Recaro PP ABEs through FVD Brombacher...I asked if I could go with the lighter, less involved, lower priced slider and aluminum side mount, and the techs in Germany insisted the ABEs had to be ordered with a more involved kit. The slider has the receptacle mount welded on, so no add on and washers...I thought this might be for TUV regulations, but maybe it also has to do with the length of the receptacle. Part #: 869 426.

They are not installed yet, so I can’t be sure...but I definitely recall the ABEs had larger lap belt holes to accommodate for the belt to be inside the bolster. I did see a different post a few months ago, where there was challenges with the install of these sliders (not all elements in the kit are used, so it looks a little confusing)...I’m hoping mines goes better.

Interesting to note that those items are side specific, which makes sense.

1. Passenger side - 869 426
https://www.fvd.net/us-en/869426/slider-and-bracket-kit-recaro-passengers-side.html

2. Driver Side - 869 416
https://www.fvd.net/us-en/869416/slider-and-bracket-kit-recaro-drivers-side.html

Also, ran across this thread regarding the above part numbers in a 993 install...
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/372533-recaro-sport-seat-installation-instructions-update.html

Per an earlier post, this is the slider that I got with my Classics...




Clearly pretty different than 869 426 & 869 416.



It looks like there is a separate part number for the seatbelt receptacle mount (and opposing rail spacer). Can you provide that?

I wonder what your other extra pieces are for, especially the ones with the countersunk screw holes in 'em. Those seem extraneous. Won't they add unwanted seat height (depending on how tall you are)?

What do all these do? Where do they go?




Either way, you still need side mounts to attach the seats to the rails, no? What will you use?

[trentwat]

Originally Posted by famoroso

What do all these do? Where do they go?

I believe this kit is applicable for the ABE PP’s to be installed in multiple 911 model years...maybe even other Porsche models...so they are supplying all parts needed for these varying applications. It is probably cheaper for them to add a couple steel parts that would be discarded, instead of maintaining multiple part numbers in stock on shelves that might not be used/sold for months or at all. And they charge a few more dollars for it, so it doesn’t affect their bottom line. Just speculating. I’ll open the box later and see if there is an explanation.

Originally Posted by famoroso

Either way, you still need side mounts to attach the seats to the rails, no? What will you use?

Yes, I ordered the aluminum side mounts like Bill V. Has.

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by trentwat

I believe this kit is applicable for the ABE PP’s to be installed in multiple 911 model years...maybe even other Porsche models...so they are supplying all parts needed for these varying applications. It is probably cheaper for them to add a couple steel parts that would be discarded, instead of maintaining multiple part numbers in stock on shelves that might not be used/sold for months or at all. And they charge a few more dollars for it, so it doesn’t affect their bottom line. Just speculating. I’ll open the box later and see if there is an explanation.



Yes, I ordered the aluminum side mounts like Bill V. Has.

Cool thanks!

Gert Carnewal referred to 869 426 as "right side console for a 996." So, there may well be some parts for use across different models.

It looks like the 364 954 rails I'm using plus this inboard seatbelt receptacle mounting bracket (and opposing spacer), if available separately, could be the call.



Please provide part number for above when you get a chance.

I still don't love that the receptacle bracket adds overall height to the install, but I'm trying to avoid the added weight of steel side mount brackets, even tho some versions (Brey Krause, Planted, etc) incorporate a provision for seatbelt receptacle mounting into their steel side bracket.

[trentwat]

I opened up one of the slider boxes...man...Recaro’s installation instructions are very un-German. It would be like purchasing a desk from IKEA and getting the assembly instructions for a table...close...but the images and words don’t match the configuration. No reference to the side mounts. The images show bars in the kit mounting directly to the bottom of a seat, and it looks like a different type of seat...maybe not a fixed back.

[trentwat]

Originally Posted by famoroso

Please provide part number for above when you get a chance.

[famoroso]

As previously mentioned, I do not like the idea of mounting the 964 Carrera RS inboard seatbelt anchor (964 521 065 00) between the aluminum bracket & slider.





I contemplated drilling a 16mm hole in the side of the aluminum bracket and mounting the anchor from the top / inside (vs. between the bracket and slider on the outside)...





The above approach won't work due to insufficient space to drill new holes on the bottom of the anchor.

What will work however, is milling a slot into the base of the vertical section of the bracket. You can then mount the anchor on top, by sliding it in from the outside. Instead of sandwiching the anchor between the bracket and the slider, this method will sandwich the bracket between the anchor and the slider.

The anchor has two M8 holes. Unfortunately, the bracket and slider do not have matching holes or spacing between the holes. There is an M8 hole and an M6 hole. The M6 hole can be drilled out to 8mm, but the spacing needs to be offset, to match the M8 hole spacing on the anchor. This method will allow you to mount the anchor with two M8 fasteners.

I believe I've found a solution for an inboard seatbelt receptacle. I've ordered the parts and will report back after the first test fit.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by famoroso

As previously mentioned, I do not like the idea of mounting the 964 Carrera RS inboard seatbelt anchor (964 521 065 00) between the aluminum bracket & slider.





I contemplated drilling a 16mm hole in the side of the aluminum bracket and mounting the anchor from the top / inside (vs. between the bracket and slider on the outside)...





The above approach won't work due to insufficient space to drill new holes on the bottom of the anchor.

What will work however, is milling a slot into the base of the vertical section of the bracket. You can then mount the anchor on top, by sliding it in from the outside. Instead of sandwiching the anchor between the bracket and the slider, this method will sandwich the bracket between the anchor and the slider.

The anchor has two M8 holes. Unfortunately, the bracket and slider do not have matching holes or spacing between the holes. There is an M8 hole and an M6 hole. The M6 hole can be drilled out to 8mm, but the spacing needs to be offset, to match the M8 hole spacing on the anchor. This method will allow you to mount the anchor with two M8 fasteners.

I believe I've found a solution for an inboard seatbelt receptacle. I've ordered the parts and will report back after the first test fit.

Elegant solution!

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Elegant solution!

Thanks Bill! That's high praise coming from you.

The seatbelt receptacle mounting solution is coalescing. Here's the 964 anchor bracket with Lotus Elise / Exige spacer and bolt.





The Lotus receptacle is 4.25" (versus the 911 rear seat receptacle at 7") and it mounts with a spring in between the bolt and the spacer. This allows the receptacle to freely rotate, yet not flop forward or backwards.