ROW Trans in US car

[plasgar]

Ok, I just bought a 1985 911 Coupe. Odometer says 25K, and it looks like its possible but can't be verified. I bought it because of how clean it looked and also because it was guards red, which I like but has a unique chocolate brown interior with sport seats with brown pinstripe cloth facing on the seats, and they look original but close to new. Now I looking into engine numbers and trans numbers and since it didn't come with COA, a PPS instead I can't verify those until I take it to a Porsche classic dealer. The engine number looks like it is possibly original since the VIN and engine numbers are in the same manufacturing range. The odd thing is that the trans numbers are ROW (915/67) for that year group. What is the chance that a US car got manufactured with a ROW trans with the cooler as original? Thanks for any insight.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by plasgar

Ok, I just bought a 1985 911 Coupe. Odometer says 25K, and it looks like its possible but can't be verified. I bought it because of how clean it looked and also because it was guards red, which I like but has a unique chocolate brown interior with sport seats with brown pinstripe cloth facing on the seats, and they look original but close to new. Now I looking into engine numbers and trans numbers and since it didn't come with COA, a PPS instead I can't verify those until I take it to a Porsche classic dealer. The engine number looks like it is possibly original since the VIN and engine numbers are in the same manufacturing range. The odd thing is that the trans numbers are ROW (915/67) for that year group. What is the chance that a US car got manufactured with a ROW trans with the cooler as original? Thanks for any insight.

Years ago I was talking w/ Bruce Anderson about the 915/67s, He told me that there were a few put into US cars, mostly for the Texas market. I've never seen any official documentation though.

[plasgar]

Thanks Bill!

[juanbenae]

would such a gearbox have taller gear sequencing? to say,, drive the autobahn? or to get through texass in the least amount of time required as possible?

[Bill Douglas]

And an oil cooler - good score.

[proporsche]

yup, i got one of those;-) red 1985 euro.. yours could be Canadian import ....
Your chassis number are us correct?

Ivan

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

would such a gearbox have taller gear sequencing? to say,, drive the autobahn? or to get through texass in the least amount of time required as possible?

yes, here is a survey of most of the various 915s

[plasgar]

Ok I am also seeing these items that make it seem a little "different." There is a metal plate riveted to the vertical side of the trunk on the passenger side along with a metalic sticker that has an E1 in a circle with additional numbering and an E13 in a circle with additional numbering. It also has the color code sticker next to it. Also the tach does not have the shift indicator up arrow and both doors have the bolt/screw heads with recessed washer above and below the door catch mechanism. I believe I have pieced together that these are all indications of Euro or ROW cars. Yet I have the VIN plate riveted to the A Pillar which matches the VIN sticker on the aft door sill on the drivers side. That VIN is a US VIN. The VIN stamp inbetween the smugglers box and the spare have the Z in the 4, 5, and 6th position as well as replacing the 9th position of the VIN. Any further words of advice? Any other places to look for other signs of an abnormal build? Thanks for the info so far.

[Walt Fricke]

Bill
Some of these ratios don't line up with the spread sheet I use in my line of recreational racing work in classes where stock gears are required. This table is built from the little white spec books for the models listed, which give the tooth counts. Of course this doesn't account for oddities, like these supposed Texas gears.

[Canada Kev]

Originally Posted by proporsche

yup, i got one of those;-) red 1985 euro.. yours could be Canadian import ....
Your chassis number are us correct?

Ivan

Canadian cars are the same as US models except for the kilometre speedo.

[Canada Kev]

This is all very odd. It's like some sort of RoW/US hybrid where the people on the factory floor couldn't decide if they wanted to make a car for Europe or the US.

The VIN from the data plate in the trunk mostly match up with the A-pillar and door frame (the 120622 car number), yet it has the WPOZZZ prefix used on the RoW cars, as well as the other RoW goodies. This is all very interesting...

[Reiver]

Better to have a ROW six and a US box that the other way round....

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

yes, here is a survey of most of the various 915s

very cool data sheet. is there a key to it somewhere, or is it a spread sheet you've put together? I understand portions on it such as the R&P ratios, the far right column of 5th gear speeds and the tire size influence so any additional cliff note version beyond that would be appreciated.


the numbers in the blue bar and what lies below them is one of the bits id like to understand more clearly. I suspect the fact that there are 5 columns gearing of the 5 speed is there. does other data below have to do with rotation rate of the output shafts at the 6800 RPM mark? any insight to better understand would be great.


I have a few other specific questions, but maybe a few hints clarifying what ive asked above like bread crumbs will show me the trail home.

thank you bill for sharing your invaluable knowledge in the manner you do. just the facts sir! the tact & respect you, john walker, and in what only seems like the not so distant past grady & earlySman have shown us new and oldies alike is the rock this place was built on.


Toby

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Walt Fricke

Bill
Some of these ratios don't line up with the spread sheet I use in my line of recreational racing work in classes where stock gears are required. This table is built from the little white spec books for the models listed, which give the tooth counts. Of course this doesn't account for oddities, like these supposed Texas gears.

Walt can you be more specific

I tried to get the data from factory sources but shi* happens and I'd like to correct anything that's amiss

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

very cool data sheet. is there a key to it somewhere, or is it a spread sheet you've put together? I understand portions on it such as the R&P ratios, the far right column of 5th gear speeds and the tire size influence so any additional cliff note version beyond that would be appreciated.


the numbers in the blue bar and what lies below them is one of the bits id like to understand more clearly. I suspect the fact that there are 5 columns gearing of the 5 speed is there. does other data below have to do with rotation rate of the output shafts at the 6800 RPM mark? any insight to better understand would be great.


I have a few other specific questions, but maybe a few hints clarifying what ive asked above like bread crumbs will show me the trail home.

thank you bill for sharing your invaluable knowledge in the manner you do. just the facts sir! the tact & respect you, john walker, and in what only seems like the not so distant past grady & earlySman have shown us new and oldies alike is the rock this place was built on.


Toby

It's a spread sheet that I put together

blue bar is tooth counts
below that are the equivalent ratios
below that is the split % aka % rpm drop on an upshift
below that is the speed in gear at redline

I tried to standardize the tires but some are idiosyncratic because I was looking at something specific and didn't revert to the std. when I froze it to post

[proporsche]

Kevin i c... yes very interesting win from European and US model together??
Ivan

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

It's a spread sheet that I put together

blue bar is tooth counts
below that are the equivalent ratios
below that is the split % aka % rpm drop on an upshift
below that is the speed in gear at redline

I tried to standardize the tires but some are idiosyncratic because I was looking at something specific and didn't revert to the std. when I froze it to post

thank you bill. ill be digesting this over my AM coffee..

[Walt Fricke]

Bill
On review (tricky when the orders are different) only one is wrong:
The 1980-83 US SC. It has a 1.778 2d gear.

I'm going to swipe some of your model numbers for my sheet, though. I didn't write those down when I went through a complete library of the spec books.

For the 915 era, there is another way to check: the parts catalogs give tooth ratios.

For current cars, the best you get is a gear part number.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Walt Fricke

Bill
On review (tricky when the orders are different) only one is wrong:
The 1980-83 US SC. It has a 1.778 2d gear.

I'm going to swipe some of your model numbers for my sheet, though. I didn't write those down when I went through a complete library of the spec books.

For the 915 era, there is another way to check: the parts catalogs give tooth ratios.

For current cars, the best you get is a gear part number.

Right you are, I think that was the result of trying to compress the survey

here is an updated version , I also changed the tires to what was at least otional at the time

[plasgar]

Bill-
I just got my Technical Certificate back from Porsche. Their records for my car did not have engine or trans numbers, so I got a certificate that says they do not know the exact numbers but my engine is in the appropriate range. They also say my trans is not in the appropriate range since their records show the 915/67 was not used for 1985 production cars. What is your source that the 915/67 transmissions were ROW for 1984-1986? It took me almost half a year for them to get me the certificate and I had to call Porsche NA a couple times complaining because the first certificate they sent said that my numbers didn't match even though they didn't know what they were supposed to be. Remembering your post I even told them that there are "rumors" in the community that the 915/67 could have been used but they went to a party line answer.

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

yes, here is a survey of most of the various 915s