Do lighter wheels change much?

[Bill Douglas]

On my 911SC I went from heavy 17" Carrera II Cup fakes to the 16" fuchs and wheel sizes it came out of the factory with.

Wow, a performance increase, and a lively snappy feel to the car. I liked the way the heavy 17" wheels looked. but I prefer the "feel" of the light weight 16's.

[john walker's workshop]

I went from super heavy Ruf wheels back to 7/8 fuchs on my 930 and it felt like riding on air, almost.

[GH85Carrera]

If I could find decent tires for my 15s I would change back right away. I just can't find much but minivan tires for 15s. Well, except for track only tires. Those are deadly in the rain, so a no go for me.

[Geronimo '74]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

I went from super heavy Ruf wheels back to 7/8 fuchs on my 930 and it felt like riding on air, almost.

I am doing that switch tomorrow.
Ruf 8&9 to Fuchs 16x7&9.
Continental Sportcontact to Pirelli p zero

[RWebb]

[3rd_gear_Ted]

A set of $2200 Michelin race slicks are as light as a feather.

Jongblood wheels are some of the lightest wheels around. 22lbs

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Gideon911

.. I have a set of 16’s (Fuchs- 7 and 8) for my Carrera. I’m going to be shopping for a tire here soon.

Glenn, that’s the same reason I went with a 16 rather than a 15. It seems there are more options in 16’s.

16 in 7 & 8 have are problematic the only real size options are 205/55 & 225/50 here as above the tire OD is the more significant factor

Everyone's needs and the way they set up the optimization parameters is going to be different but for max performance either 15 or 17 is generally going to be the way to go


Here's a comp of 15s vs 16, both wheel sets are Fuchs the tires are the best available for max performance on 7 & 8 , the 16s inertial + gearing cost is ~41lb-ft more than for the 16s

[Bill Verburg]

here is a comp of 16 vs 17, not exactly apples to apples here because the tire & wheel widths have also increased


a comp of 15 vs 17 where the 15 tire choice is compromised, & he 17" tire choice is also a bt larger than most wil need

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Geronimo '74

I am doing that switch tomorrow.
Ruf 8&9 to Fuchs 16x7&9.
Continental Sportcontact to Pirelli p zero

Your not going to gain a lot w/ that change, going to 215/45 & 245/40 on the 17s would almost match them here the 17s only cost ~6lb-ft, but the gain in lateral grip would more than compensate for it

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_Ted

A set of $2200 Michelin race slicks are as light as a feather.

Jongblood wheels are some of the lightest wheels around. 22lbs

That's another factor track tires are generally much lighter than street tires of the same size

the hot setup for the SC/Carrera track cars is custom 8 & 9 x15 w/ Hoosiers 225/40 & 275/35

[Gideon911]

Tons of great info and responses! Thanks guys.

I threw my set of 15’s from my other car onto my 88..I cannot believe how much of a change it is. Absolutely a different car. So much better

[icarp]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

If I could find decent tires for my 15s I would change back right away. I just can't find much but minivan tires for 15s. Well, except for track only tires. Those are deadly in the rain, so a no go for me.

My point exactly, run the mini van tires and laugh all the time. Rain , snow, hot or cold.
Most drivers never push a car to the tire limits let alone the cars limit .
The bar is just you in your car having fun. I see no need for sticky tires . A car with crap for tires , that is driven well , will roast a set up car with all the goodies . Most car owners just don't know how to really drive there car . Go to DE and learn all you can , hire a coach , wear out your tires not your brakes .
Just my thoughts
Ian

[Gideon911]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

I'm curious, are the 15-52 the 28# wheels?

Yes they are the 28# wheels. I love the look of them, but the weight isn’t worth it.

[Gideon911]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Yes reducing weight is in general a good thing but there are other factors that are in play that have a more significant effect on performance

Here's an example, 2 sets of tires are compared here, both on 7 & 8 x15 Fuchs, the second set has a ~41lb-ft advantage over the first set in first gear, the difference diminishes as you go up through the gears Both are 205/225, the first though is a 60 series tire and the second a 50 series.

The inertial cost difference for the tires alone is ~18lb-ft favoring the lighter and shorter 50 series tires, the rest is the gearing cost incurred buy the taller 60 series tires, So Here the gearing is far more significant than the weight

The gearing is far more significant than the weight? The taller wheel carry’s inertia more easily, therefor is more efficient in carrying and developing speed? That must have a negative effect on stopping power right? It makes sense if I’m understanding correctly

[Gideon911]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

more like 50#, all else being =

100# of chassis is worth ~8lb-ft in 1st

10# of wheel = ~4lb-ft in 1st

I’m a believer, I lost the 40 wheel pounds and it felt about as significant as the 200# I took out of the chassis

[Gideon911]

Originally Posted by icarp

The tires that I am running on my Rs Clone are made by Nankang, they handle the rain they handle the track , they drift predictably at 90 miles an hour through turns. They really are about the best deal that you can purchase in tires in a 60 series for sevens and eights on a standard Carrera Fender
If you want to hear more about them just ask , I don’t want to go on and on and bore anyone

I’d say the thing I can’t decide/understand what I want is the level of grip. I like the grip on the Michelin g force tires. I’m used to them know. I’ve learned em, and trust them. Going to whatever Kumo I have (it’s not as soft)..felt totally different today. A little bit more oh ****. The back end slid a bit in a couple corners today. The best feeling I’ve had in a car is sliding my 911, hands down. I know you all know this. I’ve only owned an air cooled for a year and a half or so. The more grip gives me a lot more confidence and ability to corner quicker, but the harder tires are more fun. I want to have fun, I don’t want to crash my cars in a canyon. I get the impression some 911 owners are sliding their cars in canyons..is that true? Or are most guys only driving like that on the track?

[Gideon911]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Yea, I tried to find some 16 inch Fuchs and they are hard to find and tires are limited compared to 17s.



I do love the look of the 17s and this is at standard European ride height. Zero tire rub issues.

225/40-17 front and 255/40-17 rears.

I love the look of them both. I think I lucked out. I bought a set of 16” polished Fuchs 7‘S and 8’s. Your car looks great

[Gideon911]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

I went from super heavy Ruf wheels back to 7/8 fuchs on my 930 and it felt like riding on air, almost.

Thats exactly how I would describe it. Lighter, more responsive, and more lively.

[Gideon911]

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_Ted

A set of $2200 Michelin race slicks are as light as a feather.

Jongblood wheels are some of the lightest wheels around. 22lbs

That’s an expensive set!

[Gideon911]

Originally Posted by icarp

My point exactly, run the mini van tires and laugh all the time. Rain , snow, hot or cold.
Most drivers never push a car to the tire limits let alone the cars limit .
The bar is just you in your car having fun. I see no need for sticky tires . A car with crap for tires , that is driven well , will roast a set up car with all the goodies . Most car owners just don't know how to really drive there car . Go to DE and learn all you can , hire a coach , wear out your tires not your brakes .
Just my thoughts
Ian

I’m going to do that ASAP. My car is finally ready. I live near willow springs so I’m hoping I can find a good instructor. I’m excited to learn.