901 shifting issue or 'just' Swepco!?

[BartdeBruijn]

Hi,

My 901 '69 5-speed gear box was working and shifting fine (like butter)!
Only issue was that from 1th to 2nd (dog leg) needed some care and time. Was not touching reverse though.

I heard a lot of good stories about Swepco and wanted to change oil anyway so replaced old oil with Swepco.
(no metal what so ever on the plug magnet &#128521

Now with the new Swepco I run into best described as sticky gearshift. Meaning when shifting it now klicks out of the gear.
Almost as it is spring loaded. It is as if there is more force needed to get it from 2nd to 3rd and from 4th to 5th...
It seems also that not only shifting out of gear generates a click but also going into the new gear (engaging the synchro) needs a bit more 'force'.
Clutch adjustment is fine as I can go in reverse without noise and shift to first while rolling, don't do but possible without problem.

Only thing that I worked on after switching to Swepco was adjusting the shift rod at the universal joint connection. But again it goes into reverse and first gear without a problem.

I planned to change to Kendall as Peter Zimmerman and others suggest.
Can Swepco make friction go up so that both out of gear and into new gear takes more effort?

I hope anyone had the same experience and found a solution!?

Thanks,
Bart

[kltarga72]

Now your scratching your head, which one caused the change in shifting. Did you happen to mark the previous location of the U-joint connection? You may want to tweak the connector before draining the gearbox.

[icarp]

Swepco is the correct oil, it provides the correct amount of friction for the syncros.
I think the linkage adjustment you made is the answer
Ian

[Racerbvd]

Check out the Numeric Shifter , May solve your shifting issues.

[Jeff Higgins]

Swepco seems to have taken on a somewhat mythical status in our community (and in the early VW community as well). I believe it is misunderstood.

A lot of folks believe it is some kind of "magic elixir" that will improve shifting in our gear boxes. I believe this came about when folks started using it in somewhat worn gearboxes, where its greater viscosity and "stickiness" serves to smooth out shifting just a bit. It's kind of a cheap fix, albeit a temporary one, to limp along with a worn, sloppy gearbox for a bit longer.

When used in a newer, fresher, tighter gearbox, I believe it is simply too thick, too viscous. It will actually hinder shifting. It won't get into all of the tiny little nooks and crannies in the synchros and such. It will actually do more harm than good, leaving these areas without proper lubrication.

If your transmission was shifting just fine with your previous gear oil, and the balkiness only started with the switch to Swepco, I think it's pretty obvious where to go from here.

[smadsen]

The 1-2 shift is the first thing to show wear because you do it so much. Sometimes a change to Swepco 201 can mask the wear, but eventually the only fix is disassembly and replacement of the offending parts, usually synchros and/or sliders. Good time to service the clutch also.

[winders]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Swepco seems to have taken on a somewhat mythical status in our community (and in the early VW community as well). I believe it is misunderstood.

A lot of folks believe it is some kind of "magic elixir" that will improve shifting in our gear boxes. I believe this came about when folks started using it in somewhat worn gearboxes, where its greater viscosity and "stickiness" serves to smooth out shifting just a bit. It's kind of a cheap fix, albeit a temporary one, to limp along with a worn, sloppy gearbox for a bit longer.

Swepco was never about "improved shifting". It achieved mythical status because it was the gear oil that allowed ring and pinions in Porsche racing transaxles to survive for longer than 24 hours in racing conditions. I don't recall if it was RSRs with 915s or 934/5s with 930s.

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

When used in a newer, fresher, tighter gearbox, I believe it is simply too thick, too viscous. It will actually hinder shifting. It won't get into all of the tiny little nooks and crannies in the synchros and such. It will actually do more harm than good, leaving these areas without proper lubrication.

If your transmission was shifting just fine with your previous gear oil, and the balkiness only started with the switch to Swepco, I think it's pretty obvious where to go from here.

You believe it is too thick? You think Swepco won't get into the "nooks and crannies" and will do more harm than good?? What technical information do you base those assertions on?

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by winders

Swepco was never about "improved shifting". It achieved mythical status because it was the gear oil that allowed ring and pinions in Porsche racing transaxles to survive for longer than 24 hours in racing conditions. I don't recall if it was RSRs with 915s or 934/5s with 930s.

I'm sure you are correct with regards to racing applications. We are, however, discussing a street going application. And yes, in these circles, Swepco has somehow achieved some sort of mythical status as a magic elixir to "improve shifting". Anyone paying even cursory attention to the ongoing enthusiast discussion not only here, but on every other Porsche forum on the internet, cannot help but be aware of this. Many, many enthusiasts have touted its virtues in this regard and recommended its use to 'improve shifting". I'm not saying they are right (kind of the opposite, really), but this has been an ongoing discussion for over 20 years.

Originally Posted by winders

You believe it is too thick? You think Swepco won't get into the "nooks and crannies" and will do more harm than good?? What technical information do you base those assertions on?

First hand visual inspection of too many failed synchros and related parts, all showing evidence of inadequate lubrication. Heat checking, discoloration, scoring, and that sort of thing. In each and every case there was Swepco in the box. I've never seen it in other boxes running Kendal, Valvoline, or similar, unless everything else was looking pretty tired as well. In the Swepco boxes, everything else still looked fine.

[john walker's workshop]

Not a Swepco fan either, for street use anyway. When I drop the Swepco out and use Kendall, the comments are always that it shifts better. Seems it's regarded as a magic elixer to fix all ills, kind of like STP.

[911obgyn]

Which swepco did you use?
I have found 201 takes a good long time to heat up enough to shift properly
Adjustment is another thing, according to your post 2 things were done at the same time. Check your tunnel bushings and cup.

[Trackrash]

I have found from my limited 35 years of experience when I ran my 901/911 trans that;

Any trans oil works. Swepco is best used for situations where your trans gets hot. The 915 I have now shifts like butter, using Swepco, when it is FULLY warmed up.

I did three things to be able to shift from first to second quickly in my 901, since I was autocrossing the car.

Put in an ORIGINAL 901 sychro ring on second gear. Keep in mind that all the replacements now are actually 915 parts and they are stiffer than the original parts were.

Put a short shift kit, Weltmeister? and adjust the linkage perfectly, up the spring pressure in the shifter and use a SOLID coupler and make sure the other shift bushings are perfect.

Make sure the shift rods in the trans are perfectly set.

[winders]

I use Swepco 210......

[yelcab1]

In all my Porsches, Swepcco = junk.

Redline MTL is far superior.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by winders

I use Swepco 210......

I'm sure that's an excellent choice in your race car. Do you run a cooler?

Street cars just don't put enough heat in the tranny to warrant such a high viscosity.

[BartdeBruijn]

Thanks for all input!

As already mentioned I should not have changed two parameters at the same time....
1) Will redo adjustment following Waynes procedure (there are many on the forum)
There was no teeth crunching what so ever, only seems that out of gear shifting is kid of a bit spring loaded, it really clicks out of gear and shifting into another gear feels more sturdy.
I live in the Netherlands and my engine is always on the low operating temperature and tranny even more

2) will change from Swepco to.... Kendall!?

regards,
Bart

[creaturecat]

i'm a heretic.
i use Motul 300 75/90.

[theiceman]

Originally Posted by yelcab1

In all my Porsches, Swepcco = junk.

Redline MTL is far superior.

maybe if you live in southern California but there are many places that run close to zero degrees and people enjoy their cars... redline=junk in these conditions.

[winders]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I'm sure that's an excellent choice in your race car. Do you run a cooler?

Street cars just don't put enough heat in the tranny to warrant such a high viscosity.

Swepco 210 is an 80w140 multi-grade oil. 80w when cold and 140w when hot. Swepco 210 actually flows better when cold than Swepco 201.

[kltarga72]

Originally Posted by BartdeBruijn

Thanks for all input!

As already mentioned I should not have changed two parameters at the same time....
1) Will redo adjustment following Waynes procedure (there are many on the forum)
There was no teeth crunching what so ever, only seems that out of gear shifting is kid of a bit spring loaded, it really clicks out of gear and shifting into another gear feels more sturdy.
I live in the Netherlands and my engine is always on the low operating temperature and tranny even more

2) will change from Swepco to.... Kendall!?

regards,
Bart

You were not having the shifting problems until you switched to Swepco and made an adjustment on the tunnel shifting coupler.
You need to correct the coupler alignment, I think it will solve your issue.

[Antomero]

Originally Posted by BartdeBruijn

Thanks for all input!

As already mentioned I should not have changed two parameters at the same time....
1) Will redo adjustment following Waynes procedure (there are many on the forum)
There was no teeth crunching what so ever, only seems that out of gear shifting is kid of a bit spring loaded, it really clicks out of gear and shifting into another gear feels more sturdy.
I live in the Netherlands and my engine is always on the low operating temperature and tranny even more

2) will change from Swepco to.... Kendall!?

regards,
Bart

Stick with Kendall your gearbox will love you.