Cryogenically Frozen Rotors?????

[reesestewww]

Its time for new rotors on the track car. Anyone ever used cryogenically frozen rotors? Pro’s, Cons? Ive always run with a slotted rotor and Pagid Orange pads. Never had problems, always had great “through your face into the front windshield if your not strapped in” stopping power.

Just though I’d through this out there for a little discussion since it is time to replace them.


Thanks

Reese

[Bill Verburg]

I believe that you just answered you own question

[boyo]

Freezing is supposed to help longevity, and not stopping power. Likely your rotors will last longer...but long enough to offset the cost of just buying and installing a new set?

Here's a site with some more info:
http://www.frozenrotors.com

I've seen some TV shows that check this sort of thing out. Supposedly they cryogenically froze an ordinary disposable razor. Normally it'd last a month before going dull, but the frozen one went strong and stayed sharp for 3-4 months.

-Boyo

[RickM]

I've been searching for a post and related site that tested these out...bottom line was that there was no noticable difference between treated and untreated. I'll keep on looking.......

[Zyvek]

I think once Walt Disney is unfrozen we'll know if cryogenically frozen roters are worthwhile....

Seriously they are supposed to last longer and wear more evenly than non-Walt Disney versions.

[cstreit]

Not worth the money if you ask me. THe price of a frozen rotor is more than double if I recall, and I don't think they last twice as long...

[beepbeep]

I asked my friend who is studying materials science and answer was that he couldn't see how gradual freezing of the rotors could prolong longevity in any way.

[J-RAD]

As you might suspect answers to your question will vary...like the saying goes, opinions are like...well, you know the rest.

I use the Diversifed product (no association with the company...just a satisfied customer) and longevitiy is definitely increased...I'd guess by 2 to 3 times. And contrary to the prior claim, cyro technology certainly is not some half-baked quasi-wanna-be-technology (a.k.a. the "Tornado"...or whatever the hell it is they call that thing on t.v.). You can research the concept with a metallurgist or the like. My wife happens to be a chemical engineer with a very strong understanding of molecular structures, fluid mechanics, and such and I ran the idea by her when I first heard of it. She confirmed that the concept is solid (as someone else mentioned, cyro treating metals such as blades and engine blocks is also being done). Since then, actual use has confirmed that theory works.

The downside? As others have mentioned...cost (they added ~$50 per rotor if I remember correctly). Does it outweigh the cost of buying regular, untreated rotors? That's up to you to decide. With slotting or drilled rotors, just the increased strength alone makes sense (have you ever seen someone crack a rotor at the track?). I have never warped a treated rotor. And my pedal does feel solid (no fade...is this due to the cyro treatment? Can't say for sure but this is one of the claims).

Look at the cost benefit and decide for yourself...obviously, you know what my decision was.

[Silveresrty911S]

I bought a set of treated rotors from the company mentioned above for my "99" F350 and they have already warped after about 15,000. I tow a 4,000 construction trailer once or twice every couple of weeks and haul my 6,000 lb boat a dozen or more times a year to the ocean. They both have trailer brakes. I would say go with the best after market or OEM you can find. If you cryogenic subpar rotors does that make them above par???????? my.02

[kcope]

Saw on the news a couple of months ago about an outfit in the boston area treating golf clubs.

[alfizzo]

i have a set of new cross drill rotors for a 74-83 911 that were cryo frozen that iam sell for $250. anybody interested. i have pics they are high quality rotors.

[69 911s]

Rick, FWIW I have never seen a Ford that didn't have ridiculously underengineered brakes and I've had em all, my cuurent explorer uses rotors like toilet paper and my F350 dually, well lets just say heavier doesn't help. We've been spoiled by teutonic grabbers...

[Adam]

Isn't there a thread on this BBS about Cryogenically frozen rotors cracking under track-like stress? One of the gurus here highlighted it a few months ago. I think the general advice was that they were fine for normal road duty, but not for racing applications.

[J-RAD]

Originally posted by Adam Chaplin
Isn't there a thread on this BBS about Cryogenically frozen rotors cracking under track-like stress? One of the gurus here highlighted it a few months ago. I think the general advice was that they were fine for normal road duty, but not for racing applications.

I'm not familiar with that post but I'd be interested in reading it should someone find it. This would be quite contrary to my experience (I've seen numerous cars with non-treated rotors that cracked...especially drillled). Frozen rotors are actually very popular with a number of the PCA track guys in my region.

[Wil Ferch]

J-Rad has it right.
I'm in the cryo business at work and it does improve toughness by altering the micro-grain structure of the host material.
Of course, the cost effectiveness depends on what it costs and the extra life you get. The cross-over point might not look good.
--Wil Ferch

[jpnovak]

So what temps are they using to treat the parts. Are we talking N2, O2 or He temps? I ask since these are available to me and I could try my own tests.

Jamie

[JB]

I've been PCA club racing a '70 S for 9 years and before 1999, had to replace my rotors, front and rear every year due to stress cracks. Then I won a set of frozen rotors from a "best braking" award (corner workers love to see tire smoke from locked up rotors). I have finally just replaced the front rotors (after 4 years) and bought a replacement set for the rears. The rears that are on the car show no sign of stress cracks and they are on their 5th season. Unfortunately, I haven't won the best braking award since then because I stopped locking up tires. I have been winning lot's of races, though.

JB

[beepbeep]

Originally posted by Wil Ferch
J-Rad has it right.
I'm in the cryo business at work and it does improve toughness by altering the micro-grain structure of the host material.
Of course, the cost effectiveness depends on what it costs and the extra life you get. The cross-over point might not look good.
--Wil Ferch

"altering the micro-grain structure of the host material." ???

I said that to my firiend "trying to get his Ph.d. in Material Physics" and he said "doing whaaat?"

According to him, when you just freeze the thing molecular movement lessens and chances that anything will be "altered" are less than if they were room-tempered.

I don't know much about it but it sure smells fishy.

[Wil Ferch]

Grain structure is altered and made finer....

How 'bout ..."interstitial grain boundaries"....

Wait, wait...how 'bout ...
" Face-centered-cubic structure" vs body-centered-cubic structure??

And to answer other questions on this, I presume the process uses relatively safe liquid nitrogen ( a fluid at minus 320 degrees F), and the components are likely immersed for a period of time in the liquid..with a controlled-rate of warming back to room temperature. I've never gotten a good answer from the people who do this for rotors...what the process really entails. Otherwise, people like me in the business could possibly go solo on this, too !

---Wil Ferch

( many years since I've had to actually use this stuff...so I may not have gotten the words "completely" right),

[jpnovak]

I have to say that I would think that heating would be required to realign or anneal. Heat cycles are found in most types of metallurgy. You have to supply energy to overcome the barriers associated with crystall lattices and realignment. A heat cycle followed by a cooling step may work better, although slow cooling works best for lattice formation. The cooling may harden the surface and make it less apt to wear, similar to quenching after a heat cycle. Just a thought.

Jamie