A/C 3.2 Carreras

captainlewis · 06-14-2021, 01:08 PM

87 cab 100,000 miles changed over to 134 on A/C was r 12. Suspect hoses leaking..was told 134 seep through the hoses. Was told refill with r-12 to solve problem. A

geoz · 06-14-2021, 01:21 PM

AFAIK R12 has been outlawed and is NLA. I replaced all hoses a few years ago and added a new evaporator for good measure. The AC has been perfect since.

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darrin · 06-14-2021, 01:22 PM

original hoses? if so, they'll weep r12 or r134a -- by design. If you want to get it to hold refrigerant and work for more than a few months, get new barrier hoses, etc. I went through Griffiths and installed his reliability package 2 https://griffiths.com/product/911-1984-to-1989-reliability-package-upgrade-2/ - which includes a new compressor -- I could see oil residue on the deckled above the compressor pulley which indicates that the compressor's front seal was blown -- have had my '86 targa since 1990 and the Griffiths parts made it markedly better than it's ever been.

Buckeye · 06-14-2021, 02:27 PM

As stated above R12 I highly recommend Griffins system. It you have R12 use it after the upgrade.

dw1 · 06-14-2021, 06:00 PM

My '87 was switched from R12 to R134 quite a few years ago. The only major component replacement were the hoses, which were switched to barrier-type.

The A/C isn't great, but it's been several years since it was thoroughly serviced and inspected (and I suspect the compressor seals are not in great shape) but the A/C in this black/black coupe can still (barely) keep up with 90 degree weather with a full (45 psi on the low pressure side) charge.

GH85Carrera · GH85Carrera's Garage

I upgraded my system to the dual cool, 4 condenser full boat Griffith's system 11 years or so ago. THE best upgrade possible on a 911. I can drive it in the hottest conditions and stay comfortable, and my wife will ride with me on 100+ degree days.

R-12 was never banned, it was just not made anymore. It is not illegal to use it, just expensive as heck. Replace the hoses. I go for many years before I ever even check the pressures on my 911.

FrankM_ · FrankM_'s Garage

Another +1 on the Griffiths,
I put in the hoses, front condensor and the evaporator + new blower motor and the system cools quite rapidly. No detectable leaks so far (UV die)

Nick Triesch · Nick Triesch's Garage

My owners manual for my Carrera says AC will leak over time.

NY65912 · 06-15-2021, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I upgraded my system to the dual cool, 4 condenser full boat Griffith's system 11 years or so ago. THE best upgrade possible on a 911. I can drive it in the hottest conditions and stay comfortable, and my wife will ride with me on 100+ degree days.

R-12 was never banned, it was just not made anymore. It is not illegal to use it, just expensive as heck. Replace the hoses. I go for many years before I ever even check the pressures on my 911.

Plus 1000

darrin · 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

My owners manual for my Carrera says AC will leak over time.

Right, that's because of both the length and nature of the factory AC hoses -- specifically, the AC hoses run from the engine to the front condenser/evaporator and back AND the original factory hoses were non-barrier hoses that slowly leaked refrigerant. Griffiths and other current suppliers use modern battier hose that prevents the refrigerant from leaking over time as well as upgraded condensors/evaporators/compressors that improve the efficiency/effectivess of the factory AC. As indicated above, I chose not to install the extra condensers that Glen uses -- in part to control cost. I've been happy with my more limited upgrade so far and my system's maintained its charge/integrity for 2 years so far. Significantly, it's relatively straightforward to add the extra condensers in the future, should I decide to do so -- I'd need to evacuate the system and re-route a hose to do so -- the balance of my AC system upgrades would remain unchanged.

GH85Carrera · GH85Carrera's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

My owners manual for my Carrera says AC will leak over time.

Blame the bean counters at Porsche. They figured out that if they bought non barrier hoses instead of barrier hoses it would save a few bucks per car to manufacturer. 20 bucks per car times a few thousand cars is real money. R-12 was pennies per pound and even if the car came in under warranty it was a cheap repair.

It is a dirty and no fun at all, but replacing the hoses will cure the leaks.

One of my problems was my old evaporator was shot. It was filthy and rusty. It had been in there for 22 years. In 2007 I made the big jump and replaced that evaporator, added two condensers, and replaced all the hoses. Later I went to his bigger blower hurricane motor, and changed to his variable speed fan speed controller.

14 years later I love the COLD air it blows. Key West, Florida in the 90s was no big deal except my sunglasses fogged up every time I stepped out of the 911.

In Savannah, GA in August, my wife said she was cold and asked to to turn the temperature UP.

True story.

darrin · 06-15-2021, 02:07 PM

Here's some more good context on ac leakage in a 911 https://griffiths.com/mr-ice-project/barrier-hose-upgrade/ --

Glen, digging a bit into this and we may need to excuse Porsche for not originally using barrier hose in our cars -- Looks like the SAE 2064 barrier hose standard wasn't promulgated until 1993

pavegeno · pavegeno's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I upgraded my system to the dual cool, 4 condenser full boat Griffith's system 11 years or so ago. THE best upgrade possible on a 911. I can drive it in the hottest conditions and stay comfortable, and my wife will ride with me on 100+ degree days.

R-12 was never banned, it was just not made anymore. It is not illegal to use it, just expensive as heck. Replace the hoses. I go for many years before I ever even check the pressures on my 911.

Amen. Temps are in the mid 90s now in Alabama with plenty of humidity. My 88 Cab with a full Griff's keeps me cool. After the first 10 minutes, I reduce the hurricane blower motor to about 70% and then thermostat to about 70% full cold and it works perfectly in cruise or stop and go traffic with oil temp staying at or below the 9 o-clock position.

I recently added the 175A alternator and that's made it even better especially at idle. Volts never drop below about 13.5

dw1 · 06-15-2021, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

My owners manual for my Carrera says AC will leak over time.

Great point. Right on p. 41 of my '87 manual: "fluid will gradually diminish over time".

captainlewis · 06-15-2021, 08:49 PM

Thinking of installing reliability upgrade package 2 on my 87 3.2 which includes compressor. No fender condenser. Just the complete package. Any one who has installed what comes with ipackage 2. Please let me know what results were.. live in Los Angeles thanks

darrin · 06-16-2021, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainlewis

Thinking of installing reliability upgrade package 2 on my 87 3.2 which includes compressor. No fender condenser. Just the complete package. Any one who has installed what comes with ipackage 2. Please let me know what results were.. live in Los Angeles thanks

I installed this package and am very happy with it in Denver - car still gets hot/heat sinks if left sitting in the sun (black targa top doesn't help this), but cools down well once running. As I mentioned above, relatively straightforward/easy to add additional condensers if you're still in need of improvement, but I found additional capacity added by new front condenser along with evaporator improvements to do the trick for me.