Griffith a/c input 87 3.2 Carrera

[captainlewis]

I am thinking of installing a Griffith reliability package upgrade 2 which includes compressor. Not going to install fender condenser. If anyone could give me feedback on their cars performance with this specific package I would appreciate it. Will this get the job done in 90+ degree weather. Please be specific. Thank you for your input.

[FrankM_]

I have recently put everything from this package into my 1985 except the compressor (mine is a reman original that is still perfect).
Recharged the system with 910 gr R134a based on pressure readings).

In addition I put in the new blower motor and PWM control.

To date, the warmest day I drove the car was about 27C, only since this week we are getting 30C and more.

Performance :
- blows cold air in about 2 minutes
- gets really cold after about 7 minutes
- I can select the noise level now thanks to the pwm control and new blower motor moves much more air than the original
- as I have an 85 the side vents are tiny and useless so the cold air is really only coming through the center vents (which only move left/right) so this is the main limitation now
- after initial cooling when heat soaked I turn the blower motor from about 75pct to about 30 pct and it keeps the car cool and runs silently
- had to move the front condensor motor to another fuse as the single 25A ac fuse was getting too hot
- perfect installation instructions, only for the long hoses it took 2 tries to make them match up with the fittings

I will take a drive later today in the +30C heat and update if necessary.

Very happy with the build quality of the system and the performance so far.

Frank


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GH85Carrera]

When my pure stock system was at peak condition, it was pitiful. I am not familiar with his reliability package. Does that replace your evaporator, and front and rear condenser and all the hoses?

With his improved condensers and evaporator you will see some improvement, but not the full cold I have with the two additional fender condensers. They are obviously more expensive, but 4 condensers is just a better package.

With the 4 condensers in the Florida keys, I parked my 911 in full sun (no shade to be found) and went and ate lunch for an hour and a half and pigged out on seafood. My brother was with me and we are both large men. Within 2 minutes the car was cooling off, and inside of 5 minutes was comfortable and when we got out 30 minutes later to look at a new site, our sunglasses fogged up from the cold air of the cabin.

I have no real data on what his 2 condenser system will do. I suspect it is a nice improvement over stock, but not any magical change.

The instructions he provides are the best instructions you will ever see, and you will say to yourself, dang that is a greet product and smart way to do that more than once.

Good luck with your project.

[hcoles]

90+, I don't think you will get the job done without adding condensers. In terms of cooling the only thing you are getting with that kit is an improved front condenser. In my case I went with:
- new evaporator
- upgraded front condenser
- two wheel-well condensers with the fans
- variable speed evap. fan control
Consider all the time you are going to put in just to install the #2 package along with pumping down and refill/etc.
Unless you don't want the fender condensers for some other reason you might as well get those as well.

[Tommy Z]

I just finished my Kuehl AC install and my 79' SC is in the shop right now for charging. I'm actually biting my nails waiting to here back from the shop. This is the second time I brought it in to be charged but as it turned I was losing pressure from at least two different places. I picked it up and went through the entire thing and discovered I missed an O-ring at one of the hoses to the evaporator and a few other fittings that needed to be tightened up. Hopefully that does the trick and I find out today.

I went beyond just the reliability package based on Charlie's recommendation. Black on Black in SW Florida requires more. My package included:
- New evaporator
- New blower motor
- New compressor
- New receiver/dryer
- All new barrier hoses
- Duel cool condensers in the forward and rear section of the drivers side rear fender well
- New thermostat
- Three new interior vents

Yes the installation instructions were really well put together but I am a total novice wrencher and it took me about 36 hours all in to do the install and I won't know if I did it correctly until I hear back from the shop today. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

[FrankM_]

The extra condensors really can make a difference in hot & humid env. I just did the test in our 'hottest day' so far, about 30°C (86F, dewpoint 17°C so not so humid).
I do not have the extra compressors : car cools quickly, I never really used full power on the blower motor. After less than 5 minutes I am dialling back the blower motor to regulate the temperature manually.
After a short drive, I measured against the passenger door (not directly in the airflow) and got 20.8 °C (69F) - what I find comfortable. Fan was about 30%, temp knob about 1/8 turn away from minimum. So a lot of 'unused capacity'.

Pointing the IR thermometer at the general outlet area (and radio) from half a meter I got the average reading of 8°C (46F). If I move the IR up close so that I only measure the vents, I get about 2 °C but I will measure that with a real thermometer next time as it seems very low.

As for the instructions TommyZ : well made , but that doesn't mean it is a quick job. I think I spent as many hours as you (over 2 weekends) but I took the time to clean the whole underbelly and the wheelwells where the hoses pass, and the individual clamps holding the hoses, and ... .
I spent most time fitting the 2 long hoses and manoeuvring them for example behind the headlights.

I can image that in a more hot&humid climate you absolutely need the extra condensors

Frank

[josephvman]

Last year on my '84 Targa I did the following Griffith upgrades:

1. Barrier hoses
2. Griffith Front Condenser Blower/Motor
3. Griffith Hurricane Evaporator Motor
4. Kuhl Evaporator Fan Variable Speed Controller
5. New drier
6. Bowtie vent

I kept the stock front and rear condensers, and my compressor was a nearly-new R134 unit. I would have replaced the front condenser with the Griffith unit, but they were out of stock for several months when I had this done. I'll eventually do that the next time the car needs service.

I'm in Houston with a Targa that's rarely driven with the roof on, so I've managed my expectations accordingly. It blows cold enough that I rarely have to run it at max until the temps start to get into the mid 80's, and it holds it own up to around 90 or so. Considering that I wouldn't typically be driving any convertible top-down with temps in the mid 90's, it does everything I want it to do. If I had a coupe I could see the advantage of adding more condensers area, but much of that just gets lost on a Targa in my opinion.

The amount of air the Hurricane blower moves is incredible, so much so that I turned the system on max with one of the vents directed right at my face and managed to blow a piece of something into one of my eyes that I needed to have removed. Now I make sure I'm either wearing glasses or the vents are pointed down when I turn it on.

[GH85Carrera]

The best advice: Talk to Charlie, tell him your goals for AC. In LA you should be fine. Just stay out of Bakersfield or Palm Springs. When I was in Needles, CA it was 118 that day and the AC was indeed set to MAX cold, and it kept me cool on a drive from Monterey to New Mexico. When I got to Arizona it was only 101 and I turned the AC down as I was getting cold.

[TxGerman]

Originally Posted by josephvman

Last year on my '84 Targa I did the following Griffith upgrades:

1. Barrier hoses
2. Griffith Front Condenser Blower/Motor
3. Griffith Hurricane Evaporator Motor
4. Kuhl Evaporator Fan Variable Speed Controller
5. New drier
6. Bowtie vent

I kept the stock front and rear condensers, and my compressor was a nearly-new R134 unit. I would have replaced the front condenser with the Griffith unit, but they were out of stock for several months when I had this done. I'll eventually do that the next time the car needs service.

I'm in Houston with a Targa that's rarely driven with the roof on, so I've managed my expectations accordingly. It blows cold enough that I rarely have to run it at max until the temps start to get into the mid 80's, and it holds it own up to around 90 or so. Considering that I wouldn't typically be driving any convertible top-down with temps in the mid 90's, it does everything I want it to do. If I had a coupe I could see the advantage of adding more condensers area, but much of that just gets lost on a Targa in my opinion.

The amount of air the Hurricane blower moves is incredible, so much so that I turned the system on max with one of the vents directed right at my face and managed to blow a piece of something into one of my eyes that I needed to have removed. Now I make sure I'm either wearing glasses or the vents are pointed down when I turn it on.

Joseph,

I'm in Katy and just got a quote for the Griffith's upgrade. I have a coupe and was planning to replace the front condenser and add one extra condenser along with barrier hoses, drier, blower, evaporator, compressor, etc. Sounds like from your experience with our H-town weather, that is probably a good way to go.

Dennis

[Coblue]

Every time I talk to Griffiths he tries to stonewall me and can't get past a little detail, which is different every time I talk to him. Once it's the kind of venting I'll have, another time it's the clearance over the air filters and under the grill, another time it's the front oil cooler lines... he just doesn't want to sell me anything, because he always looks for reasons not to..

[josephvman]

Dennis,

I think it's a good idea to add the fender condenser on your coupe, and I think you'll be very happy with the results. Definitely get the variable fan controller. The stock switch doesn't do much until you get it on max. With the more powerful blower you'll want their controller. It looks original if you're worried about that.

Who's doing the installation?

Originally Posted by TxGerman

Joseph,

I'm in Katy and just got a quote for the Griffith's upgrade. I have a coupe and was planning to replace the front condenser and add one extra condenser along with barrier hoses, drier, blower, evaporator, compressor, etc. Sounds like from your experience with our H-town weather, that is probably a good way to go.

Dennis

[josephvman]

When I talked to him he pretty much told me I was wasting my time if I didn't get the extra condenser and when I told him I wasn't going to do that I think he lost interest. I'm really happy with the system I decided to go with, and I still think there's a point of diminishing return trying to cool an open car. Spending another $2k, and more importantly for me adding the weight and more invasive installation wasn't worth lower vent temps that you can't keep in the interior of the car with the roof off, which is the only way I drive it.

Originally Posted by Coblue

Every time I talk to Griffiths he tries to stonewall me and can't get past a little detail, which is different every time I talk to him. Once it's the kind of venting I'll have, another time it's the clearance over the air filters and under the grill, another time it's the front oil cooler lines... he just doesn't want to sell me anything, because he always looks for reasons not to..

[TxGerman]

Originally Posted by josephvman

Dennis,

I think it's a good idea to add the fender condenser on your coupe, and I think you'll be very happy with the results. Definitely get the variable fan controller. The stock switch doesn't do much until you get it on max. With the more powerful blower you'll want their controller. It looks original if you're worried about that.

Who's doing the installation?

I will be doing the installation.

-D

[Coblue]

Mine's a no-sunroof coupe. Doesn't matter to him, he doesn't want my money. Or for me to have decent air conditioning.

Originally Posted by josephvman

When I talked to him he pretty much told me I was wasting my time if I didn't get the extra condenser and when I told him I wasn't going to do that I think he lost interest. I'm really happy with the system I decided to go with, and I still think there's a point of diminishing return trying to cool an open car. Spending another $2k, and more importantly for me adding the weight and more invasive installation wasn't worth lower vent temps that you can't keep in the interior of the car with the roof off, which is the only way I drive it.

[Synchro Joe]

I did my '88 Cabrio with the full Griff package and added 2 rear fender condensers. Also his newer style front condenser and evaporator. Already had his controller and vent done. It will frost your package if left on full for very long, so usually turn it down to maybe 30-40 % and have a thermometer set up for monitoring the evap and vent temps.

[GH85Carrera]

I have never found Charlie to be anything but helpful. He is knowledgeable and makes a great product. If you try to just slap some of his parts on, and not follow his advice, I can see how he might be reluctant to sell a "upgrade" that is incomplete. He will be blamed when your system does not work well.

The real issue with all the G body AC systems from the factory is completely inadequate condenser capacity. Just add condenser capacity and it will work. The front condenser and rear condenser are the only stock components left on my car. OK, the fan housings brackets are stock, but that does not affect performance.

To try to make the 911 AC system work in hot conditions with just two compressors is jut not likely. The fender condensers are the real answer. Yea they weigh a few pounds, but the heat for the system is blow out the fender and not into the engine. Oil temps go down as well as the interior temps.

Bottom line, the few extra pounds of AC components make no signifigant difference in a street car, but the comfort of driving on a REALLY hot day make the car just a blast to drive regardless of the weather. In F1 those few pounds of weight would be critical. I am not ever remotely that good of a driver, and I sure don't drive at 10/10th even on a track.

[Coblue]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I have never found Charlie to be anything but helpful. He is knowledgeable and makes a great product.

I agree, he's very knowledgeable.

If you try to just slap some of his parts on, and not follow his advice, I can see how he might be reluctant to sell a "upgrade" that is incomplete. He will be blamed when your system does not work well.

We never got to the system part at all. We always got stuck on vents, or clearance, or this , or that... never got to the bones, just the tidbits.

To try to make the 911 AC system work in hot conditions with just two compressors is jut not likely.

How many compressors do we need? do we run them all off the motor?

The fender condensers are the real answer. Yea they weigh a few pounds, but the heat for the system is blow out the fender and not into the engine. Oil temps go down as well as the interior temps.

All I need is a plumbing/layout plan and a list of components and wiring details. And some brackets probably.

What I will likely do since I'm starting from scratch is buy a kit from Classic Auto Air and add condensers later if I feel I need them. I live in DFW, so it'll be hot, but I haven't driven it at all yet.

[thsupernge]

Wait multiple compressors? Did I read that right?

[darrin]

Originally Posted by thsupernge

Wait multiple compressors? Did I read that right?

believe he meant "condenser" when he typed "compressor"

[Coblue]

Sorry, I was thinking he knew something I didn't. I never saw a multi-compressor setup before. NJo WONDER those Griffiths upgrades work so well!