Please recommend the "right" header/muffler

[mreid]

So I'm comparing the SSI thick flange headers and muffler PMS recommended for my 3.6 hotrod build to the exhaust ports on the 3.6 and feeling a little bit underwhelmed. The header flanges are 1 1/2" and the ports on the 3.6 are larger. Worse, the collector outlet/muffler flange is only 2". This seems very restrictive. In fairness, I did say I wanted a quieter exhaust, but I don't want to give up most of the power I gain over the 3.2. Then again, the torque band will probably be meaty and I'll only really lose power in the upper rpms.

What is a better header/muffler choice that gives flow without setting off every car alarm and comes in ss?

I'd also prefer an exhaust configuration like this one:

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by mreid

So I'm comparing the SSI thick flange headers and muffler PMS recommended for my 3.6 hotrod build to the exhaust ports on the 3.6 and feeling a little bit underwhelmed. The header flanges are 1 1/2" and the ports on the 3.6 are larger. Worse, the collector outlet/muffler flange is only 2". This seems very restrictive. In fairness, I did say I wanted a quieter exhaust, but I don't want to give up most of the power I gain over the 3.2. Then again, the torque band will probably be meaty and I'll only really lose power in the upper rpms.

What is a better header/muffler choice that gives flow without setting off every car alarm and comes in ss?

I'd also prefer an exhaust configuration like this one:

As you have discovered SSI are too small for a 3.6 if the engine is ever to be revved above 4k.

Alternatives exist from several places, none are cheap. It's not the header so much that makes the noise but rather the muffler attached to the header.

One possibility is B&B 1.75" headers w/ heat. I would avoid the B&B mufflers though. On mine I use 964 heat crossover pipe for both 993 and 964 engines, it is slightly easier to fit than 993. When I ordered my B&B headers I specified 964 heat inlets and 911 heat outlets, It makes hooking up the heat a very simple process. For a muffler I used a Flowmaster which is way too loud for most people, a Maganflow 2in/2out is a much better choice. Do a search on Gary R where he installed on on his race car. I've heard it and it sounds great and is LRP legal which is saying something. Another alternative is a Dansk or oe bannana, but you will have to do some work to alter the inlets on factory type mufflers as the B&B spacing is not factory standard.



There are other places that sell properly sized 3.6 exhaust setups, most are boutique low production items and thus very expensive.

A low cost alternative that many pursue is to use 993 headers but again here the muffler choice is complicated by the unique geometry of the 993 header outlets

[JAR0023]

Not quite headers but how about 993 heat exchangers with flipped flanges and a two in two out muffler? That ones been done and documented a few times on this site. -J

ETA - Did't read all of Bill's post. He beat me to it.

[Maltese Falcon]

Check with TRE Motorsports, good selection of U.S. Manufactured, mandrel headers for all air cooled engines, all tube sizes are available.
Ceramic coating too....Dave is real good on header debating as well!

[rsscotty]

I did this Monty muffler conversion on a 3.6 early car. Worked out great. We order a Monty without any inlet pipes and fab our own to fit from the 993 heat exchanger flange.

[RWebb]

care to fab some out of inconel?

[Steve@Rennsport]

RSScotty didn't mention that these Monty mufflers have different baffling made specifically for 3.5 and larger engines.

Standard Dansk & Monty mufflers do not flow well enough for these big engines and upper RPM (6K+) performance suffers accordingly.

[RarlyL8]

We offer several options for engines 3.2L-3.6L

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by rsscotty

I did this Monty muffler conversion on a 3.6 early car. Worked out great. We order a Monty without any inlet pipes and fab our own to fit from the 993 heat exchanger flange.

That's nicely done!

[Steve W]

SSIs are much too small for anything over a stock 3.0. European George headers work well and in stainless with heat Fabspeed makes a set and the 993 heat exchangers work very well too. In fact we recently dyno tuned a stock '95 993 motor with nothing but open race pipes coming off of the 993HEs and it put out 290 rear wheel HP on a Dynojet on pump gas. With respect to mufflers, the Dansk sport mufflers work well too. We've dyno'd the single out sport version to only be 4 hp off of a completely open racing pipe exhaust. If you want really quiet, believe it or not, huge a single in, single out Super Turbo muffler (a la Bursch style) maxes at probably 86 db but is also only 4 hp off of completely open race pipes.

[obrut]

Steve,

Was the dansk sport muffler you refer to a twin inlet?

[Steve W]

yes

[martensson]

Interesting topic.
Just like mreid, we are looking for a better header/muffler.

I got a question regarding the M64/01 engine. Stated by Porsche, that these engines produce 250hp with or without the catalytic converter. Any practical tests done that show anything else?
Will a better header/muffler choice result in any gains in hp?

We will be running this engine on 98 octane instead of 95. Will this make any difference in Hp or do we have to install another chip to notice any difference?
I know that a customized chip will result in higher output , but will it make any difference even without a chip?

Any figures you might have are welcome. Hp gains with,
- better header/muffler choice
- 98 octane instead of 95
- both
- with chip

I´m new to the Porsche scene & the 3.6 engine is in pieces for a complete rebuild. So any info, regarding the questions above, is welcome

thanks!

[Joe Bob]

I've run this.....




But swapped over to a single/out cat equipped set up for smog purposes. Ran better...to me.

[Joe Bob]

Same HEs...but a collector with an O2 bung.

[Joe Bob]

[michael lang]

Mark, at the end of this past DE season I started to look for ways to get my car around the track a little faster. One thing that had been bothering me was how I reel in some of the guys in my group when the track would tighten up and become technical only to have them pull on me when the course would straighten. Those ways were air in/air out & weight reduction. The SSI's are definitely not the way to go, they are just too restrictive for anything larger than a 3.0L. So I looked around, a lot of guys like the B&B but by the time you finish with the headers, muffler, oil line, and any hardware you need, well you just spent $4000 on parts alone. Since I have a FabSpeed per-muffler I looked at that set up. I have not had any problems with my pre-muffler so I figured it would be a nice alternative, it's bright & shiny and is well put together and it is priced a little more reasonably but you still will be well over $3000 for a complete exhaust. As a comparison, I looked at getting a set of RarlyL8 headers w/heat and an MK muffler. Brian's (RarlyL8) exhaust appears to be very well made and look like they would last forever due to the thickness of the pipes and the quality of the welding. Based only on the pictures that I have seen on his website and on the forums and reading various posts from guys that use that exhaust, it is a quality system and when I'm ready to make a purchase, that will be what I'm buying. Mark, if you combine that with a Wong chip, you will be good to go.
I hope this helps.

[mreid]

Thanks everybody and the pictures are almost better than the words. Looks like the SSIs will go and I'll have to make a decision. I need heat and love the idea of the B&B with the 993 style inlet and 911 outlet. Would make it easy to hook up. The Magnaflow muffler may then be the hot ticket (price and performance) and I could plumb the exhaust. I'll let you know where I land.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by mreid

Thanks everybody and the pictures are almost better than the words. Looks like the SSIs will go and I'll have to make a decision. I need heat and love the idea of the B&B with the 993 style inlet and 911 outlet. Would make it easy to hook up. The Magnaflow muffler may then be the hot ticket (price and performance) and I could plumb the exhaust. I'll let you know where I land.

Hope you meant to say 964 heat inlets

The heat inlets to the headers are the oval pipe center bottom, 3.2 Carrera is the same but round, 911 out are the round almost vertical tubes at the top of the pic


993 are totally different, the top right tube is a 993 heat inletto the right is the outlet to the chassis

[wachuko]

Those look like the Fabspeed units...same ones I have in my 964