3.6 transplant oil cooler question

[uwanna]

I have looked several places for the 3.6 to early P car transplant methods.
I saw no mention of retrofitting to an engine oil cooler on any of them, but I sure wonder why. Sixteen years ago, long before the "transplant kits", I obtained a 3.6 motor and G50, with the thought of putting it in my '80 SC (which already had a 3.2 transplant). In looking over the motor, I noticed the absence of the "old" engine oil cooler, which I assumend was eliminated to provide space for the power steering pump. Knowing the oil temp problems with P car "oil cooled " motors, I was bound and determind to put an engine oil cooler back on. (even though I had a front fender cooler) I proceeded to cut off the cam extension and fabricate a camshaft block off plate. I then drilled out the two oil galleries on the 3.6 case. installed the gallery grommets and four needed mounting studs, and bolted on a good used cooler. You also don't need the fabricated oil pipe to the oil tank! Viola!, two oil coolers instead of one, and my car runs cucumber cool, even in 100F weather with the AC on.
I'll attach some pics I've edited from http://www.rennlight.com/howto/964/index.html
I would imagine you already know about that site. Some good light weight info

Back then no one had the shortened bell housing G50s, so I went with a new 915 LSD and HD clutch package. I used a stock Carrera exhaust w/cat bypass,
and the car passed emissions in Ga as clean as a whistle!
I installed what was billed as a "Cup Car Chip" in the ECU, even though Wong says these are bogus, whatever it really was, it sure gave the motor a kick in the pants! This combo is as much of a rocket as I need!
Can anyone explain to me why the 3.6 "transplant kit" providers don't use the engine oil cooler retrofit procedure. Seemed like a "no brainer" to me sixteen long years ago!



Grant

[sandiego]

Makes sense to me, if you are already planning on splitting the case, which most folks don't want to do.

Did the factory remove the oil thermostat when they removed the cooler? You may find your cooler is in the loop even with a cold engine-not good for the cooler.

[uwanna]

Don't know why you'd have to split the case! I didn't! You just have to drill out the galleries very carefully from the outside, it's just a thin shell of aluminum. Back then I did a lot more work on 911 motors, and had built several big bore high performance motors from the ground up, and knew the 911 case intimately. I saw no problem doing this upgrade. It's been 16 years, so my memory is a little vague, but I am sure I installed a thermostat.
Anyway, 16 years later she's still running stronger than dirt!

Grant

[Jack Olsen]

Dave Bouzaglou (TRE Motorsports) showed me one he had done (with no power steering pump, of course) years ago. It adds a little expense to the swap, and a lot of guys are going to be fine with a big front cooler, which is a better place to put the weight.

[uwanna]

Jack,
The expense of the retrofit is very minimal. Just the drilling, grommets, studs, and a used cooler, which are no trouble to find cheap. As far as weight, you've got to be kidding, the aluminum cooler itself ain't much. Plus you don't need the ugly, welded up oil return pipe, you see in the photo. On the InstantG website in fact, they recommend adding a second cooler in the left front fender, that's some pricey endeavour!!
There's no such thing as TOO MUCH oil cooling capacity in an "oil cooled" 911!!! Just look at the race cars.

Grant

[Rouxzy]

I about doing the same thing with my transplant. It was suggested not to drill unless the case was split so not to get any shavings in the motor. The motor was already put back together after a full rebuild and was in my car, so that was the end of that. I wish I had thought about it sooner. It is a no brainer.
Tom

[Bill Verburg]

I'm w/ Jack, You are going to need a better cooler up front for track days anyway, better there than in the back. The engine mounted cooler only really helps in traffic and at lower speeds anyway.

Lastly you also need to swap an an earlyier shroud w/ a built in air duct to the engine mounted cooler or use an add on duct for the 964/993 shroud which doesn't have such.

[uwanna]

Tom,
The thing about spliting the case is bogus. Look at the blowup pic, and you will see the location of the thermostat. You just remove the thermostat and you are looking at the "other side" of the oil gallery holes. You place a rag in the bottom of the thermostat hole, carefully drill out the galleries and clean up any metal chips. No problem.

[uwanna]

Guys,
First of all, I'm not a "track guy" or even an AXer. That was stuff I did in my 20s and 30s. A couple of pounds of weight here or there is of little consequence to me. 35 years later, I just enjoy high performance on the street on the weekends with the AC on! That being said, I think making use of the front mounted cooler that was already on my SC and abetting it with the retrofitted engine cooler on the 3.6 seemed like a good idea. First of all when the engine oil heats,the thermostat opens to the onboard engine cooler, as the oil gets hotter the thermostat in the rear fender opens and flows to the front mounted cooler, (correct so far?)then when the oil in the front cooler is hot enough the fan comes on. It seems to me having oil flowing thru two coolers is better than one! After all, this was the precise system used on all 911s, since the first 911S with a front cooler way back when and not changed till Porsche decided we need power steering!
It's been 16 years since I did this 3.6 swap and my memory is alittle dim, but I'm sure I did some ducting for the cooler. All in all, as I mentioned, in 100F weather down here in Ga, in stop and go on the freeway with the AC blowing cold, my oil temp stays cool as a cucumber, and that's good enough for me!
Grant

[beamonk]

What size bit is used to drill out the galley?

[uwanna]

John,
Like I said in my post, I did this long ago, and it's difficult to recall exactly how I accomplished everything. However, the two oil gallery drillings will be intuitive when you look at them. The outside appearance is a large hole (where the sealing grommet goes) that then steps down to a smaller inner hole area (the hole where the casting is not drilled out). Perhaps you could measure the inside diameter of the rubber grommet or you would just have to match up a large drill bit to the undrilled hole diameter. It's easier to see than to explain, but you will see there is nothing "too precision" about it. You will also have to install a thermostat that is easily obtained.

Grant

[CBRacerX]

This is one option to expand capacity but without the shroud change it will not be that effective. Used engine coolers are not as cheap as they used to be, and are a bit suspect from the cleanliness perspective. I do like the solution for the engine feed line better than the welded up long pipe many of us (including myself) have.

If you are going to do something here, another option is the engine mounted oil filter from the 993, which adds safety to your expensive transplant.

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by CBRacerX

This is one option to expand capacity but without the shroud change it will not be that effective. Used engine coolers are not as cheap as they used to be, and are a bit suspect from the cleanliness perspective. I do like the solution for the engine feed line better than the welded up long pipe many of us (including myself) have.

If you are going to do something here, another option is the engine mounted oil filter from the 993, which adds safety to your expensive transplant.

As they say "the proof is in the pudding". Sure seems effective down here in the 100deg heat/90% humidity in Georgia. My car never breaks 210deg, even with the air on. I do however agree on the value of the full flow/pressure oil filter.

[CBRacerX]

Originally Posted by uwanna

Sure seems effective down here in the 100deg heat/90% humidity in Georgia. My car never breaks 210deg, even with the air on. I do however agree on the value of the full flow/pressure oil filter.

Don't get me wrong, I am sure it does help - but a large cooler or two upfront helps a lot more. I am a fan of two small inexpensive Mocal coolers in series with a transplant, but whatever you do just keep the temps down people

[PcarPhil]

Originally Posted by uwanna

I proceeded to cut off the cam extension and fabricate a camshaft block off plate.

Grant

Grant,

I'm thinking about adding an engine mounted cooler to a 964 engine. Can you tell me how you cut off the cam extension? Was this done with the cam still installed in the engine, or was it removed for the modification?

Thanks for the help!

[rsrpedi]

hello together,

my understanding is : take a 964 and build the shell you want. i think it´s not less
work than modifying engine, trans, oil cooler.

i did it the otherway - took a 964 rsa with best upgrades - and developed a bolt on kit. so i have all "modern upgrades and can use more upgrades that i can buy on the market, they fit together. wish you all happy holidays and aircooled regards from germany peter

[PcarPhil]

rsrpedi,

I won't be backdating a 964. I've already built my 911 chassis.

Here's my car:

[uwanna]

Scott,
Posted this original thread quite a while ago, and I recall a couple of things I did that I did not include in the original post.
First, I cut off the camshaft while it was still in the engine. I fabricated a cover plate my self, but the blue one in the first post can be obtained from the "conversion guys".
Secondly, I had to remove the aluminum oil return tube (more like carve it out) from the oil cooler with a Dremel tool. I then used the original steel "screw in" oil return tube from the 964, and modified it a bit.(somewhat like the fabricated return pipe in the first post) The mod was to weld a threaded fitting to the return tube (near where the rubber "S hose" attaches) to accomidate an oil temp sender "screw in" unit. The reason for this mod is, when you replace the "cap plate" over the oil thermostat hole with the actual thermostat, you lose the two threaded holes for the oil pressure sender and the oil temp sender! You also have to move the oil pressure sender to another threaded hole close by (which has a threaded plug in it on a 964). There is no other place to put the temp sender, so the threaded fitting welded onto the steel oil return tube allows for oil temp sending. (albeit, it is sensing the temp of the return oil).
This explanation may be a little confusing, so if you have any questions. please ask away. When the weather gets a little warmer, I'll take some pics to clear things up!
I did this mod way back in '92-'93, so some of the details are a little foggy in my
much older brain, but if I ponder it long and hard enough, it slowly comes back!! LOL!

Grant

[rsrpedi]

hi kaefer, beautyful car, very very nice work. can imagene how many hours you spent. have fun best regards peter

[johnsjmc]

If I hadn,t already purchased a second Carrera fender cooler.I would have done this on the install I did to my 80SC yrs ago. I wanted a stock looking street hotrod and didn,t want a huge front cooler. I ended up with another cooler in the dr side fenderbut had to move the windshield resevoir.
I have seen a detailed post re installing an engine mounted cooler 2-3? years ago. Doesn,t the 993 engine have a second filter in the way? Then only doable on a 964?