Question on elephant feet ball & socket play

[Discseven]

Just bought 12 new elephants. All have ball & socket play. Didn't measure each one---just took a sample of one. Play is 19 thousandths. Is this play standard? (I bought these new ones after finding play in the ones operating in the car. From memory and a without a tool-measurement, am thinking the ones I checked in the car have the same play.)

[Classic 911]

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[prschmn]

There needs to be clearance for oil to get in the gap.
Nothing to be worried about.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by prschmn

There needs to be clearance for oil to get in the gap.
Nothing to be worried about.

19 Thousandths seems to me an excessive movement between the cup & ball for oil. ???

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[prschmn]

I understand your concern but remember there's only .004 between the ball and valve when in use.
Think of it as a "retention pond" to keep the ball and socket wet.

[Walt Fricke]

They all have what seems like a lot of play, and it isn't important. If you could pull the cap off the ball, I'd maybe worry, but even then it wouldn't affect running (and the early factory race motors used caps, of varying thickness, on a sort of post - no part captured on a ball). When you adjust the valves with a feeler gauge, you have removed this play. If you use an angle method, when you zero things to start you have removed the play.

[Discseven]

Input is appreciated guys. Thank you.

This vid is where my "interest" in ball & socket play started...



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[Walt Fricke]

Well, I see why you wondered about this. So far, no one who has removed rocker arms has said this play is an issue. And, in particular, the guys who do this kind of thing for a living. For the life of me I can't see how it matters. There is play inside the cup, and oil. When the cam is on the base circle, the rocker foot may, indeed, be on the cam, but the oil barrier inside the cup provides the clearance - it isn't like that oil will hydraulically lock things, removing the clearance.

Too little clearance runs the risk of a valve not fully closing - a bad thing. My one experience with hot valve clearance is that it opens, and hence is an additional safety feature. But I'm not about to set at zero clearance based on that theory.

So why anyone would go to the trouble of doing this closing (is that a flat side of the tool just pressing the cup lip inward?) up the gap on the cup baffles me.

[Discseven]

Makes sense there needs to be some clearance between the the ball & socket for oil. Question is how much? .019" I have in hand with a new set seems excessive. I looked for factory specs on this but so far have drawn a blank. I did find another Pelican thread wondering the same. Henry Schmidt of Supertec Performance posted measures he found. New ball & socket on his end had less than .001" clearance.




Edit: Email's been sent to Mahle asking for new & worn specs.

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[HaroldMHedge]

Karl's Henry Schmidt information is from: Elephant Foot on Rockers: how tell if worn out?

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by HaroldMHedge

Karl's Henry Schmidt information is from: Elephant Foot on Rockers: how tell if worn out?

Thanks Harold. Interesting info Henry provides in that thread.

I ended up getting all new feet. Sockets in the new parts had the same general play as my old ones. Makes me wonder about the vid where the guy is taking out the play. Am thinking there should be some play for oil to get in between the ball and socket. Just a guess.

I did not check for cracks around the sockets as Henry suggests.

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