SC Targa Window Rail

[lyonsfin]

My driver's window rail has become deformed and unable to stay connected to regulator. The window fell out. Regulator and motor are fine so I am going to replace just the rail. Our host has a new OEM one with a good review and dC Automotive has a used one for about 40% less. I am inclined to purchase from our host as I have done so for more than 10 years. Any experience with dC Automotive or thoughts regarding new or used?

Also, any trick in loosening the hex head bolts holing the window frame in? I'd like to replace the rubber parts while I'm at.

[Discseven]

Are you referring to the bottom rail the glass sits in? If so, those rails rust and structurally weaken. It might be why yours deformed. I experienced exactly the same situation. Got a used rail from I forgot what dismantler and it was ok but I decided against installing it and got new for both sides. More money but I'm keeping the car so figured it was worth installing new. There was a little rust on the one I got (but the price was appealing.)

Since you brought this up, I'm thinking it would be a good idea to put something in the bottom crevice of that rail to prevent water from settling on it. Wish I had done that.

Don't recall any trick to removing the hex bolts.

It is a challenge to get the scissors out of the door provided you're going that route and have the same access into the door that I have. If you are taking the whole of it out, once you figure out the procedure for getting the scissor out, remember that for getting them back in.

Once the glass is back in, it will need to be tuned to the roof. I suggest not pushing it all the way down into the rail until it's back in the door and you've eyeballed it to the roof and made whatever angle adjustments are necessary. The force to drive the glass down into the rail requires some support placed in the door and below the rail.

[lyonsfin]

Yes it is the bottom rail. And yes it is rusted. I think its probably been an issue for a few years I appreciate your experience and advice. I kmay use some flexible calk under the bottom rubber seal.

The other issue I have is that there are small triangle end pieces at the top of the vent window on the Targa. These rubber triangles have metal strips out of two sides with holes for fasteners, There are 2 screws at the top of the vent frame, but when I peeld back the window channel gasket, the 2 fasteners were smooth. Any idea how to remove them and then re-secure?

[garment]

You have to drill out the smooth fasteners you mention - they are actually rivets. I’ve been dreading doing mine.

[Mark Salvetti]

Originally Posted by garment

You have to drill out the smooth fasteners you mention - they are actually rivets. I’ve been dreading doing mine.

Me too. Here is a thread I saved on it: The question asked but never answered, how do I install new Targa window stops?

Mark

[Discseven]

"Fin"... knowing you're replacing the joiner at the top of the "pizza slice," it's understood how deep you're diving. A few more bits of info for you...

You'll likely find a number of rusting parts as you proceed. A good practice is to coat all that oxidizing metal with a rust reformer. If you have not used a rust reformer before, research it before getting on with it. (Some degree of rust needs be present for that stuff to work.)

Look inside the door for fixed parts that are rusting. Treat them the same as noted above. I have found that reforming oxidation works amazingly well to preserve metal that would otherwise rot.

Inside bottom of the door. There are small drain holes. There are 2 in my door. One towards the front. Other towards the rear. Debris gets inside the door over time and can plug those holes. Benefit of keeping those holes open is obvious. For the preservation of the door itself, I suggest cleaning the inside of the door base insanely well. Then look for rust. Then coat it with either a rust reformer or something else if there is no rust.

Parts I'm showing below are from an '80 Targa. May or may not be exactly the same as yours---am showing for the thinking of it not necessarily for the parts themselves. Window's up/down drive gear box. These tend to dry out of lube. Reason is the cover gaskets shrink and pull in. What lube is in there can then slowly depart.



Above is what I found when opening a cover. I'd consider this "dry" of lube. Put red grease in this then cleaned the seam of the box and cover and applied a seal of epoxy 5 minute gel. Probably use silicone just as well. I'd NOT reinstall another stock gasket given the possibility of a repeat shrinking performance. Also, I suggest eyeballing the seal between the drive gear box and the motor. If that is not sealing, the motor will get wet internally. If that moisture is constant, the motor will fail sooner than later.




Door latch mechanism. Have a good look at the lube status on this. Add lube if things look dry. If you take this hardware out, when putting it back in, there's a finger on the door handle mechanism that MUST be positioned between the fork on the internal hardware for the door opening to work. (I think the finger being out of position also prevents the door from closing but don't remember for sure.) The finger & fork are seen at the top of the photo. Fork has a grey rubberized coating. Black parts to the top right are door handle parts---outside of door is to the right.




If your door rattles slightly on rough roads, could be any number of things but the one thing to easily look for is the black eyelit that the door locking rod runs through. Those eyelits rot and disappear. Most of that part can be found resting on the door's bottom given their insert-to-the-door having broken off. If gone, don't necessarily need the stock part---can make a solution. Point is to keep the locking rod (when it vibrates) from making contact with the door (as it does on rough roads.)

Generally, lubricate connections that move against each other with grease.

Look at the felt liner the window runs in in the forward vertical rail. Also in the horizontal sill. These are typically worn. Might still be functional but with things apart as they are, now's a fine time to deal with them. Not expensive as I recall but don't quote me on that---prices may have changed. Keep grease and any other lubricate away from these felt parts. Once grease gets on the felt, even after cleaning it, you will be reminded of this error when the window is installed and working.

Plastic barrier. This is the sheet between the door and the interior door panel. This serves to keep moisture away from the interior door panel. These barriers disintegrate over time. Quite often the bottoms will be gone and left that way to continue disintegrating. What occurs from this is the interior door panel soaking up moisture and eventually loosing integrity---stock panels are made of fiber board. To preserve the panel, a full length barrier should be maintained. If a speaker is in place, a flap should be cut into the barrier and pushed into the speaker hole to protect the speaker.

I now get why you questioned the "hex bolts." Those offer some adjustment to control the tilt of the window's hardware. Rather than my confuse you with details concerning tuning the window's hardware to the car, I suggest you study the movement of each mount and conclude what adjustment each mounting place offers. This understanding is essential to being able to adjust (tune) how the hard frame of the window meets the frame of the car along the front windshield and how the glass meets the vertical seal at the rear and against the seal that's in the Targa's frame. It's also important for the window to end up flush against the forward vertical or it will/can wobble on the way up and down---there is nothing to the rear to stabilize the window, only its tension against the forward rail. Keep this in mind when going to fully seat the window into the bottom rail. Once again, there are such nuances here that while I'm inclined to write in detail, doing so would likely overwhelm. Perhaps it is best to say "consider all the adjustments knowing that in the end, the window needs to meet the roof so there is a good seal top and sides. The top seal/part in the Targa roof has some in & outwards adjustment. Would be smart to loosen the screws in that seal/part before the adjustment process begins in order to serve that process.

...As far as setting everything in place, I found the process calling for small adjustments followed by testing the fit followed by more adjustment and so on. The one thing you want to avoid is fully seating the window in the bottom rail and realizing the position of the window is wrong. It's one thing to get a window out of a rusted and deformed rail. It's entirely another to get it out of a new rail. Working incrementally and constantly checking fit in all locations keeps progress going in the right direction. If there is a problem brewing, it can be caught before getting out of hand. Can be laborious. But, I'll propose it being better to get it right slowly than wrong quickly.

Another mention on supporting the rail from the inside of the door. If you try to push the window down into the rail with no support below the rail, you'll immediately find the spring of the system not allowing a good push. Fist occasion I dealt with this window business, I did not fully seat the window. One day while working the window, it suddenly dropped into the door---the window had come out of the rail. PITA---I was back into the door. I mention this to emphasize the need to fully seat the window in the rail. Once seated... test it. Try to pull it out. To fully seat it, support below the rail is necessary as far as I'm concerned. That support has to be such that the window goes into the rail respecting its relationship to the forward vertical rail and its ending position when raised to meet the roof.

...Replacing a window is not a cake walk. Take your time.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by garment

You have to drill out the smooth fasteners you mention - they are actually rivets. I’ve been dreading doing mine.

Rivets... confirmed. Indeed Garment, all the work to access that small part is a journey of some magnitude.
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