Clifford alarm: Inadvertant engine kill? Help.

[stone43]

My car came with a Clifford alarm. I used it twice, but I hate the damn things, so I never use it.

Last week, I came home from driving back from LA. I stopped for a sandwich, came out to the 911, and it would not start. Let it cool, would not start. All of the power was working, but it would not turn over. After each try, I kept hearing a single chirp from the alarm. Called the wrench at Black Forest, told me he thought it was a starter problem. Called the towing company and had it towed to Black Forest.

They had it for the last two days. Car started right up, tried to replicate the problem, but could not. Blamed it on some loose wires at the positive terminal, charged me $78 and I drove it to work. Drove it home. After about an hour, went to start it up to give it a shower, same problem, would not turn over. Finally started on the fourth try. I suspect it is that damn alarm with some type of kill switch for the engine.

Anyone else experience problems with alarms? I just want to be rid of the thing, or at least disable it (if I can find it). Help.

Oh yes, I will have some additional dialog with the boyz at Black Forest.

[Dutchie]

on my Clifford a single chrip is either a low batery or that something is still open (door,hood,engine lid). But give us some more info on what type you have. Do you have a carjack system on it maybe ?

[xlr8]

WWW.Clifford.com has guides and wiring diagrams available online.
Good luck!

[reesestewww]

Stone,

Shoot me an email and ill give you my phone number. I used to work with Clifford every day. They wanted to move me to Cali to come work for them. Good thing i didn't, they're no longer around, bought by DEI.

[88911coupe]

I have/had a Clifford alarm that began to cause similar problems. Actually went of a couple of times while driving down the highway...scared the crap out of me. Anyway, a local alarm shop figured out the ground wire was not seated properly. It seemed to work great after (for a while) but began to act up more. It was several years old so I just removed the brain of the unit and just last week carefully removed all the wires. I can reinstall it if I want but I'd like to have it tested out first.
Later

[rick-l]

Originally posted by stone43
All of the power was working, but it would not turn over.

Does this mean the starter engages and won't turn it or it does nothing? Do the dash lights dim when you attempt to start it? Does the chirp occur after you release the switch from start or turn the ignition off and back on again?

[reesestewww]

i bet the answer will be, the starter does nothing, like it's not even hooked up.

[Kurt B]

Well, get at your alarm. If your alarm is in the front trunk, it there will be a couple of thick wires going from it on the driver's side behind hoses...those are the ones that are going to your starter. I just put in a new alarm, and that's where they go. You ought to look for those and disconnect from from the system.

[RANDY P]

Clifford disables the starter by interrupting the cranking voltage to the key with a 5 prong relay. The main cranking wire is cut and the relay is spliced in to facilitate starter interrupt when the Clifford brain sends a trigger. This method for starter disable is used by virtually every alarm manufacturer on the planet. In the event the brain loses power or is disconnected THE CAR SHOULD START. (there's a possibility that the installer installed the disable as NORMALLY OPEN but doubtful same results either way I don't think you can do that with a Clifford but..)

Locate the Clifford brain, should be underdash and next time the car flips out, unplug the brain from its harness. You won't hurt anything and the car should start if the brain is faulty and triggering the starter disable.

If no start still then -
Look underdash again and you should see in the vicinity of the key a relay with a thin GREEN wire going to it, and 2 more wires that are thick like 10GA wire that are WHITE with either a BROWN stripe or RED stripe going to it. I can't remember if it's brown or red striped but the relay should be just hanging there by itself. THIS MUST BE THERE SO THE CAR CAN START. You remove the relay you will not get it started. You can unplug it and replace it if it's bad. it's only a garden variety 5 prong relay that most cars use. Get one at a local mobile electronics shop $5.00.

If you don't want to hassle it take it to a stereo shop and let them find it. It really isn't that complicated. Alarms get a bad rap from most people who don't understand how they work. If the stereo shop says it's fine and not affecting the car's starting then believe them - it's probably your starter solenoid failing.

Good luck.

rjp

[xlr8]

Last September I had an intermittent starting problem with similar symptoms. I had power to the dash lights, but the starter would not engage. The first time happened after driving for several hours, then stopping for fuel. We got started by rolling the car and popping the clutch. We had to do this for several days. Each time we would try the starter, then resort to the rolling start. Then it began working again and worked normally for several days. Then once again it would not crank after a long drive and a stop for fuel. The problem was the battery negative cable. The terminal connection itself was clean but the cable strands were corroded. This can be hard to see with a casual glance, but I had removed the cable to check for a clean connection where the cable attaches to the body. When I got it out of the car and into the light it looked like a piece of green rope. Each individual strand allowed light current to pass, but the corrosion prevented the strands from working together to pass the heavy current required to close the solinoid and turn the starter. The resistance of running current through a corroded connection caused heat which caused more resistance. After cleaning and reinstalling the cable, the car started perfectly and has not been a problem since. I had also been concerned about a security system malfunction, but after reading some posts on the Pelican board, I was ensuring the basics were checked before buying a new $tarter. Thanks Pelican!

[reesestewww]

Originally posted by RANDY P
(there's a possibility that the installer installed the disable as NORMALLY OPEN but doubtful same results either way I don't think you can do that with a Clifford but..)

Cliffoed does, in some of there high end alarms, if you disconnect the alarm brain the car will NOT start. This is to prevent a crook from disconnecting the alarm then driving away. When the relay is at rest, the starter is disabled. The alarm will power up the relay during the starting process opening the contact to 87&30 on the relay, then the car will start.

[Huey58]

For $ 50.00 dollars I had the darn thing removed at a clifford dealer and now all my problems like yours went away!!!

[sammyg2]

My car came with a clifford alarm. I didconnected it a week after I bought it and haven't looked back.
My theory is if I insure the car for more than it's worth who cares if it gets stolen?

[stone43]

Thanks for all of the input. That alarm means nothing to me, that is why I have really good insurance. So after reading this, I will look for the brain and disconnect the two wires (as per Kurt B), hopefully this will solve the problem.

How big is the brain on this thing and what does it look like? From what I read, is it normally installed under the dash? Are there any gotchas I should be looking out for (e.g., never unplug the (fill in the blank) wire or you will totally screw up the (fill in the blank).

Sammy, how did you disconnect yours?

I will also (recheck) the terminals, but apparently, Black Forest did this and battery checked out ok. I really do not want to resort to popping the clutch on this thing to get it started. Too many (up) hills here.

Nothing like driving your favorite car and wondering if it will restart, eh?

[sammyg2]

The brain on my car was inside the front trunk nar the freash air blower thingy.
It's a silver metal box about 5" x 7" x 1"

I traced the ribbon wiring from ther key pad back to the brain.
IIRC I simply disconnected the ribbon from the brain. I can't remember if i had to jumper the fuel pump wire to bypass the brain or not, for some reason i think i did. I can check when I get home.

At the time I was having a battery drain problem and suspected the alarm. It turned out to be the alternator but i never hooked the alarm back up. During the week or so it was hooked up I set the darn thing off a dozen times by accident.

[stone43]

Thanks, I will look for it tonight. Still looking for the answer as to what "to" disconnect -vs- what "not to" disconnect. Just looking for the path of least resistance. Any pics would be great.

[RANDY P]

It should be 1 or 2 harnesses. Probably secured to other wiring by wire ties. You can literally unplug the unit. Get a light under there and look for the box that says "clifford" on the side.

If you're that unfamiliar, pay a pro to find it.

Note: The only thing to unplug is the entire brain - unless it's wired as mentioned by reeesestewww.

[stone43]

Alright, here is the latest update.

Looked all over the car for the Clifford brain (began wondering if mine was functioning properly), finally located it. Underneath your floormat, underneath your carpet on the passenger side, there is a piece of wood (yes, factory issued Porsche wood) panel. I unbolted it and behold, the little monster was there. Once again I learned something about these strange mechanical creatures.

SO, I unplugged one harness (there are 2), tried to start car, no turnover. Plugged it back in, it started right up. Unplugged the other, no start, plugged it back in, it started. And finally, unplugged both at the same time, no start.

Conclusion is Randy P is probably correct as per his comment: "there's a possibility that the installer installed the disable as NORMALLY OPEN but doubtful same results either way I don't think you can do that with a Clifford but..)" Apparently so.

Black Forest won't even touch it now.

[reesestewww]

Originally posted by reesestewww
Cliffoed does, in some of there high end alarms, if you disconnect the alarm brain the car will NOT start. This is to prevent a crook from disconnecting the alarm then driving away. When the relay is at rest, the starter is disabled. The alarm will power up the relay during the starting process opening the contact to 87&30 on the relay, then the car will start.

I think Reese would be right in his comment. I knew what you were going to do wasn't going to work. It seems you didn't read my post of choose to ignore it.

[RANDY P]

that was assuming that *all* cliffords use a normally open starter disable.

Although it's been proven that this one does - not all of them are installed normally open. Around here we consider it bad practice to install it like that.

rjp