DIY LED headlight conversion

[How2]

Hello

Originally, I planned to convert the dodgey stock system to HID.

As of recent, the LED lights made are just as good, with fewer parts.

I have a universal H-4 housing that fits in the stock headlight area.

Has anyone done a DYI with using an LED bulb and an after market housing? There is some mystery to this as most conventional automotive lights have a specific reflector or projector design to properly target high vs low beam light.

Got a couple of questions for those that have done this

- what LED bulb did you settle on?
- any fitment issues or modifications you needed?
- how long ago did you do this and how it is going today?
- what approach did you take on the projector?


Here is a photo of the reflector unit. I noticed its more cone shaped than the original sealed beam unit. So space is getting cramped..

BTW Pelican sells an LED sealed unit- not seeing online reviews on it.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/CLWHSMD6V12VT.htm?pn=CLWH-SMD6V12VT&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3fjAwJOfhQMVmgitBh1YmwEbEAQYAyAB EgK48fD_BwE
What are the experienced wrenches take on this project?

[HarryD]

I had a crack on one of my Hella drop in H4s and decided to do a full replacement. I found these on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CFZSHDFJ?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1.

They were a direct replacement. The only issue I have is that they interfere with my FM Radio. I added some Ferrite Beads (four on each feed wire, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CWCSNW9?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details) which appears to have solved the issue.

Much better lighting.

[TwoBluPorsches]

I suspect that you’ll hear a lot about the virtues of the H1 style.
I like mine for the performance and the classic look. They work great with stock lamps.

If I was looking for a sealed beam replacement that involves LED, I’d put in something from JW Speaker. There may be others that are acceptable.

You’re likely to hear that it’s basically impossible to create an HID or LED lamp to replace a H4 or other incandescent bulb.

Best you can do is a better incandescent bulb.
Or plan on using something that doesn’t involve the stock reflector.
Some people have used projector assembly mounted to poke through the OE reflector (a la Singer)

Make your way to the Audette collection website. For definitive information.

[HarryD]

My 1973 with LED Projector Headlignts.

[famoroso]

https://www.morimotohid.com/Sealed-Beam-Holley-RetroBright-LED-Headlights-7-Round_3


Holley (Morimoto) Retrobright LED

[darrin]

How2 -- looks like (from other posts) you have an '86 with sugar scoop headlights. I drove my '86 with the stock sealed beam bulbs for a few years and completely understand your frustration with the meager, poorly focused light they put out. This stems not from the inherent superiority of modern HID/LED over incandescent lighting, but instead from the poorly thought out regulations implemented by the US DOT, which forced US-spec cars to have sealed headlight assemblies that used inefficient lens designs to diffuse (instead of focus) the light they produced. Conversely, european/non-US headlights that used H4 bulbs and e-code headlight lenses provided both brighter light (from the bulb) and, more importantly, used lenses that focused the vast majority of the bulbs' light onto the road in front of you, using a sharp cut-off to avoid also projecting this light into the eyes of oncoming drivers.

The issue with converting h4 assemblies to LED is that the H4 assembly is designed to focus light coming from a single point source (the h4 bulb's filament), while a LED bulb used in the retrofit LED h4 bulbs produces its light from a series of LEDs that are not all in the same place. Since an H4 lens is designed to focus the light it produces below a horizontal cutoff (so as to both use all the bulb's available power to light the road AND avoid blinding oncoming drivers), putting an LED bulb into an assembly designed for incandescent compromises the lens' design/cutoff and is a less-than-ideal solution.

As others have indicated above, there are a number of drop-in headlight solutions available that were designed to work with LED illumination - the Holly retrobrights recommended above by Famoroso look quite stock and are supposed to provide both good illumination and cutoffs.

Many years ago, after suffering a turn signal/high beam switch failure (causing my high beams to flash on with my directionals), I replaced my '86 targa's stock sealed beam headlights with H4 assemblies that looked similar to the H4 unit you photographed above (I bought some used Cibies). Once properly aimed, these H4 assemblies and halogen bulbs , along with the headlight relay kit sold by our host, fundamentally changed my headlight performance (lighting was brighter/sharper than the HID system on my 2004 vw Touareg).

So . . . If you already have H4 assemblies (and, hopefully, have also already installed headlight relays), seems there would be little harm involved in dropping a few dollars for a pair of standard H4 halogen bulbs and taking the time to properly aim these once installed on your Carrera. Worst case, you could sell the assemblies/bulbs in the classifieds and then pick up a set of headlight assemblies designed to work with LED bulbs.

[Mr. Merk]

Philips now offers a good 7" LED lamp that'll replace any 7" sealed beam lamp.

Don't install any sort of LED "bulbs" into halogen housings. They can't and won't be a safe or effective lighting solution.

[Mr. Merk]

Originally Posted by darrin

How2 -- looks like (from other posts) you have an '86 with sugar scoop headlights. I drove my '86 with the stock sealed beam bulbs for a few years and completely understand your frustration with the meager, poorly focused light they put out. This stems not from the inherent superiority of modern HID/LED over incandescent lighting, but instead from the poorly thought out regulations implemented by the US DOT, which forced US-spec cars to have sealed headlight assemblies that used inefficient lens designs to diffuse (instead of focus) the light they produced. Conversely, european/non-US headlights that used H4 bulbs and e-code headlight lenses provided both brighter light (from the bulb) and, more importantly, used lenses that focused the vast majority of the bulbs' light onto the road in front of you, using a sharp cut-off to avoid also projecting this light into the eyes of oncoming drivers.

The issue with converting h4 assemblies to LED is that the H4 assembly is designed to focus light coming from a single point source (the h4 bulb's filament), while a LED bulb used in the retrofit LED h4 bulbs produces its light from a series of LEDs that are not all in the same place. Since an H4 lens is designed to focus the light it produces below a horizontal cutoff (so as to both use all the bulb's available power to light the road AND avoid blinding oncoming drivers), putting an LED bulb into an assembly designed for incandescent compromises the lens' design/cutoff and is a less-than-ideal solution.

As others have indicated above, there are a number of drop-in headlight solutions available that were designed to work with LED illumination - the Holly retrobrights recommended above by Famoroso look quite stock and are supposed to provide both good illumination and cutoffs.

Many years ago, after suffering a turn signal/high beam switch failure (causing my high beams to flash on with my directionals), I replaced my '86 targa's stock sealed beam headlights with H4 assemblies that looked similar to the H4 unit you photographed above (I bought some used Cibies). Once properly aimed, these H4 assemblies and halogen bulbs , along with the headlight relay kit sold by our host, fundamentally changed my headlight performance (lighting was brighter/sharper than the HID system on my 2004 vw Touareg).

So . . . If you already have H4 assemblies (and, hopefully, have also already installed headlight relays), seems there would be little harm involved in dropping a few dollars for a pair of standard H4 halogen bulbs and taking the time to properly aim these once installed on your Carrera. Worst case, you could sell the assemblies/bulbs in the classifieds and then pick up a set of headlight assemblies designed to work with LED bulbs.

This is great advice

[Schulisco]

Originally Posted by Mr. Merk

Philips now offers a good 7" LED lamp that'll replace any 7" sealed beam lamp.

Don't install any sort of LED "bulbs" into halogen housings. They can't and won't be a safe or effective lighting solution.

Totally agree!

Here in Germany the restrictions on legal use for such LED bulbs are very tough. Now since 2023 there are two vendors on the market providing street legal versions of LED bulbs for many cars, even for the old 911's headlights from 1963 - 1994: Osram (Sylvania in the US) and Philips. You can simply replace the H4 bulbs with the new LED version (despite of a new adjustment of course). With these LEDs you can be sure that will work perfectly with the euro headlights with the most outcome of light, brightness and cut off. And its the cheapest and quickest solution by far. The 993 have ellipsoid headlights and afaik cannot be equipped with LEDs.

Background: In Germany and even Europe every headlight is required to be certified for the use with it's bulbs. So every headlight has to have a european certificate with an "E" and a numeral on the lens. So it's always the combo of the headlight in conjunction with the bulb which is street legal or not. It's not the car as widely assumed...

Porsche delivers them by their dealerships here in Germany with the certificate only, I suppose there's a contract between Osram (=Sylvania in US) and Porsche...but Porsche provides the approval online with the relevant numbers:
https://www.porsche.com/international/accessoriesandservice/classic/producthighlights/LED-approval-documents/ When using them in Germany you have to carry this approval in your car to prevent any hazzle with the local Police...the document says that all headlights with an "E4" in the lens are approved with the german product "Osram Nightbreaker H4 LED". You can purchase them all across europe.



The euro 911 H4 headlights are certified in Europe with an "E4" in the lens:



So then it's legal for Germany and even for Europe and supposingly for the rest of the world too (with left hand driving) they're also the best bang for the buck (despite of the relay circuit mod) in using these headlights together with either the Osram/Sylvania H4 Nightbreaker or the Philips Ultinon LED bulbs if you already have the euro H4 headlights in your 911. If you're sitting in a country with right hand driving afaik these LEDs still not usable. I read a remark when you go to britain with your LHD car and these LEDs, you have to switch back to common H4 bulbs for the time being there...!

Interestingly Sylvania itself provides for the US market only the common H4 bulbs and sealed beam headlights only, any without LEDs...don_'t know of they plan to rollout them in the US as well...?

https://www.sylvania-automotive.com/bulb-finder.html

So I don't know if you can get the "Osram Nightbreaker LEDs H4" in the US as well? Be careful - there are common bulbs also named "Nightbreaker" in the market! They're no LEDs! Instead watch out for the "K2006" id on the LED light to assure that you get the LEDs:



The second vendor is Philips: They provide a product named "Philips Ultinon 6000 LED" in H4 version also as a simple replacement type bulb for the original H4 bulb. The regulations are here the same as said for the Osrams. Refer to their compatibility and legality lists:
https://www.philips.de/c-e/au/car-lights/headlights/ultinon-pro6000-led

Interestingly they also provide now a newer version (called "Boost") with 300% more light (the former standard version provided 220/230% more light than a standard bulb).

Afaik now the euro lenses / headlights are also legal in the US.

I personally didn't tested them yet due to that I already have the relay mod in my car and I'm quite satisfied with the light. But others are very happy with the new masses of light now...

Thomas

[Mr. Merk]

Originally Posted by Schulisco

Now since 2023 there are two vendors on the (German) market providing street legal versions of LED bulbs for many cars

Interestingly Sylvania itself provides for the US market only the common H4 bulbs and sealed beam headlights only, any without LEDs...don_'t know of they plan to rollout them in the US as well...?

From what I understand they are now legal over there only because they meet minimum requirements, but are not an improvement in performance.

They are not sold in the US, I think mostly because the euro "H4s" were never approved for US use anyway and/or the "h4 leds" do not meet minimum requriements.

Here is some information from Daniel Stern which he followed up with very detailed test results that was way over my head.

The legitimate companies (leaving aside the super-numerous trinket
factories and quick-buck con artists) are working on LED retrofit bulbs
for halogen lamps, but this is a technically very difficult thing to
achieve. The state of the art is bulbs that work _acceptably_ (not
necessarily better than a halogen bulb, and not necessarily even equally
well as a halogen bulb...this just means "meets legal minimum
requirements") in a _few_ specific headlamps (not anywhere close to
any/every lamp they physically fit in) according to the local
regulations of a few specific countries in Europe (nowhere close to
meeting the Europe/world-wide U.N. regulations). Think of this along the
lines of the difference between the US national lighting regulations,
which exert strict, detailed performance requirements, versus state regs
which are much more lax, basically along the lines of "Must have low
beam and high beam".

[PeteKz]

A major problem with ALL the LED replacement "bulbs" that I have seen: The LEDS are mounted sideways on the stalk, thus, they emit the light out sideways instead of unidirectionally like a real halogen bulb. Most of the light does not reflect off the reflector and out through the lens to provide a focused pattern. It just sprays out radially after bouncing around in headlight.

Something I bought from Headlight Revolution 5 years ago that seemed to work reasonably well was LED bulbs the could be "clocked"(rotated) to point the LEDS into different parts of the reflector. This worked well and gave a reasonably bright and focused beam on my 2009 Avalanche (with rectangular reflectors and lenses), when clocked sideways. I doubt that would make much difference in the round headlights of 911's.

[Schulisco]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

A major problem with ALL the LED replacement "bulbs" that I have seen: The LEDS are mounted sideways on the stalk, thus, they emit the light out sideways instead of unidirectionally like a real halogen bulb. Most of the light does not reflect off the reflector and out through the lens to provide a focused pattern. It just sprays out radially after bouncing around in headlight.

Something I bought from Headlight Revolution 5 years ago that seemed to work reasonably well was LED bulbs the could be "clocked"(rotated) to point the LEDS into different parts of the reflector. This worked well and gave a reasonably bright and focused beam on my 2009 Avalanche (with rectangular reflectors and lenses), when clocked sideways. I doubt that would make much difference in the round headlights of 911's.

For 99% of those somehow LED bulb junk I agree with you. They mostly "emulate" a round cone emitting light bulb. The Osram and Philips are different as you can see in the picture above. And they never would get a certificate if they won't fulfill the regulations.

Thomas

[PeteKz]

Thomas, the Phillips LED replacement bulb still has the LEDs mounted sideways on the stalk. I can see that would work on a headlight with deep reflectors, but not well with shallow reflectors.

I would love to see a good LED replacement for halogen bulbs, but my experience so far has been okay on my Avalanche, to really bad on other applications. Let's see what feedback is provided when someone here tries them in an H4 or H1 headlight.

[darrin]

although kinda off-topic to the OP's question about drop-in led assembly conversions for his sugar scoops -- here's an interesting thread about Porsche classic-branded LED H4 bulb assemblies and h4 LED bulbs in general https://www.early911sregistry.org/forums/showthread.php?170418-Porsche-Classic-H4-LED/page2

[Mr. Merk]

The Phillips 7" LED lamps are supposed to be the bees knees, coming from Daniel Stern. Drop those in your sugar scoops, aim and fire.

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

Thomas, the Phillips LED replacement bulb still has the LEDs mounted sideways on the stalk. I can see that would work on a headlight with deep reflectors, but not well with shallow reflectors.

I would love to see a good LED replacement for halogen bulbs, but my experience so far has been okay on my Avalanche, to really bad on other applications. Let's see what feedback is provided when someone here tries them in an H4 or H1 headlight.

The halogen bulb filament is located at the focal point of the parabolic reflector, regardless of housing / reflector depth. Why would the LED retrofit work better with a deeper reflecor?

If anything a deeper headlight bucket would be better for us. More room for the LED retrofit heat sink.

[PeteKz]

Frank, Because with sideways-pointing LEDs, less of the light hits shallow reflectors. With deeper reflectors, the bulb sits further into the bucket, so the bucket catches more of that side-firing light. Simple geometry.

Since I'm pontificating, what I would REALLY like to see (pun intended), are LEDS mounted on the center stalk but angled back toward the reflector at least 45 degrees. Then most of the light would hit the reflector and get focused through the lens.

[Schulisco]

Here's a link to a Google translated article of the famous german car magazine "auto motor und sport" from last October the new LEDs from Osram & Philips:
https://www-auto--motor--und--sport-de.translate.goog/oldtimer/led-nachruesten-kompatibilitaetsliste-oldtimer-v1-update/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true

Some pictures of the article in detail:

Here you can see the light pattern of the low beam on the wall in front of an old VW Beetle, the sharply defined light pattern and the cutout of the European headlights can be clearly seen, the low beam usually is set to a gradient of 1.2 to 2% depending on the car:








And here's an article from the german automobilists club ADAC:
https://www-adac-de.translate.goog/rund-ums-fahrzeug/ausstattung-technik-zubehoer/licht-und-beleuchtung/led-retrofits/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp





This shows quite well how the low beam light pattern has to be here in europe with left hand drive cars: The right side of the street has to be more lighted than the middle of the street to minimize glare for the oncoming traffic. High beam is different story. I doubt that you reach such light patterns and brightness with most of the cheap round LED lights currently available on the market. So IMO the quality and design of the LED light and it's correct fitment to the headlight makes the difference.

Thomas

[PeteKz]

Thomas, thanks for those articles. PK

[shoooo32]

LEDs seem like an upgrade compared to 55w halogens. But 100w Hellas are just as bright as LEDs and they're $6 on Amazon. So they're cheaper than LEDs and don't make your classic look like you shop at pep boys. Yes, they're illegal, but so are LEDs, euro tail light lenses, SSI backdates, and that splash of leaded race gas I toss in there for the fun smells.

They do require relays but you should install those no matter what bulbs you're running.