16" Tires for 1987 3.2L

[AustinL]

Hi Guys,

Looking for input on the best set of tires for occasional track duty (3-5 times per year). Currently running stock 16" Fuchs with Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 205/55 ZR 16 (front) and 225/50 ZR 16 (rear). These are great tires overall but leave much to be desired at pace. Car is located in central California, only driven during sunny days, so all-season/rain performance is not considered.

Michelin Pilot Sport 2's would fit the bill very well but they're not made in correct size. I've been seriously looking at the TOYO PROXES R1R and BRIDGESTONE POTENZA RE-71RS. Totally open to other suggestions, would love some fellow Pelican feedback

Thanks!

[mikesarge]

I've been running V730s for track/auto-cross and summer driving for a couple of years, and they're excellent in my opinion. Very predictable and controllable at the limit. I'd consider them, depending on how many miles you're putting on it every year: I've only been able to manage 1-2k/yr on this car in the summer (I run all season tires in the winter), so they're lasting fine, but if you're adding 5k+/yr you may be replacing them often.

Not too loud on the highway (though my car is pretty loud, so I may not be the best gauge for this)

I did a track day with them in the rain this past spring and they were surprisingly good in the wet, so even if you did get caught in a sprinkle it's not like they turn useless.

[darrin]

I've really enjoyed my first summer on my Yokohama A052 tires -- super sticky but surprisingly compliant and quiet ride. Same issue/question Mike raised above, how many miles do you plan to put on your car/these tires each year, as these aren't going to handle too many total miles either

[Bill Verburg]

RE71s or A052 aere bothe great tires

if still running 6 & 7 move the 7s to the front on 205/50 or /55 and get 8s for the back w/ 225/45

[KRLocke]

What size wheels do you have? 6x7x16? if 7s and 8s, consider Yokohama A008s in 205 and 245 section widths.

[MTN930]

Running Nitto NT01s on 16" wheels. Great for track and road (not good in the rain, but you say sunny days only). Only complaint would be that as they approach EOL (from wear) they do get a bit noisy.

Good luck.

[AustinL]

Thanks for the informative replies! To the best of my knowledge my wheels are stock 16" diameter, 6" wide front and 7" wide rear.

Seems like many folks increase width of their rear tires, why is that?

My novice mind suspects this would make car less nimble and add weight, so not sure what's to gain there unless for aesthetic reasons?

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by AustinL

Thanks for the informative replies! To the best of my knowledge my wheels are stock 16" diameter, 6" wide front and 7" wide rear.

Seems like many folks increase width of their rear tires, why is that?

My novice mind suspects this would make car less nimble and add weight, so not sure what's to gain there unless for aesthetic reasons?

tires connect the wheels to the ground, wheels connect the tires to the chassis.

Each has a say in how the car responds to driver input.

response areas are
over /under steer aka push/loose
sluggish & sloppy or sharp and precise

In general the narrower the tire or wheel the less grip it develops and the slower sloppier the response, but the ride does get comfier.

In general the stiffer( to a point) the sidewall the more precise and rapid the response to driver input, the mechanism is lowering tire deflection and as a result the slip angle that the tire runs at, this has the additional benefit of allowing the tire to run cooler.

Less grip in the front than the rear is called understeer, w/i a range it is ok but out of that range it is slow. Each driver will have a different range. Less grip in back than in front is called over steer.

So what you want is a balance, but a tad less under steer is going to be quicker on a track than a tad more understeer.

Given stock 6 205/55 & 7 225/50 x16 as a base to start from

7 & 8 w/ the same tires stiffens the sidewall by stretching the tire a bit more, this sharpens the response and increases grip more or less evenly at both ends of the car. leaving over/under alone Generally this is good

going to 205/50 & 225/45 on 7 & 8 again stiffens the side walls but though a different mechanism, here the shorter sidewalls raise the stiffness for the same tread width.

Additionally the shorter tires free up both gearing torque and rotational torque for acceleration and deceleration. The car will be livelier to accelerate, decelerate and change directions. All good things.

Some folks want to increase understeer, remember everyone has a different comfort range for over/ under

to do that w/ wheels and tires increase the rear wheel width and or increase the rear tire width. To do that some put a 245/45 on an 8. This has the property of increasing slop slowing response and raising understeer. Better is 245/45 on a 9, this at least sharpens the tires response curve.

Of the 3 most probably 16" rears for an SC/Carrera 225/50 is tallest and reduces torque for acceleration the most, 225/45 is shortest and lightest and frees the most torque for acceleration , 245/45 is in between.

NT01 and A008s are also good track/street tires

[911MANN]

My car is an '83SC. Back in 1989, I moved my 7x16s up front and bought 8x16s for the rear, keeping my 205/55 and 225/50 tires. At the time, I thought that was a very significant improvement in the feeling of the car being planted in turns. Still highly recommended.

I bought some new Fuchs Felge 9x16 wheels for the rear a few years ago but haven't installed them yet. I intend to use the 245/45 tires with them. Bill- Didn't you say that alters the balance just enough to be less to your liking than the 8x16 in the rear? I'm much more of a street driver than a track driver these days. Any other comments about the 9J rear wheels? Thanks

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by 911MANN

My car is an '83SC. Back in 1989, I moved my 7x16s up front and bought 8x16s for the rear, keeping my 205/55 and 225/50 tires. At the time, I thought that was a very significant improvement in the feeling of the car being planted in turns. Still highly recommended.

I bought some new Fuchs Felge 9x16 wheels for the rear a few years ago but haven't installed them yet. I intend to use the 245/45 tires with them. Bill- Didn't you say that alters the balance just enough to be less to your liking than the 8x16 in the rear? I'm much more of a street driver than a track driver these days. Any other comments about the 9J rear wheels? Thanks

I like a little less understeer than a stock, 7 205/55 and 9 245/45, while better than 7 205/55 and 8 245/45 still induces more understeer than stock. At least w/ 7 & 9 there is less defection of the tire thus better precision.


If using 7 & 9, 225/45 front helps balance the 245/45 on a 9, if 225/45 was on an 8 even better but there are no Fuch 8s that work well in front.

If you want to optimize an SC/ Carrera using 16s then aftermarket 8ET27 and 9ET12 w/ 225/45 and 245/45, any smaller wheel compromises one aspect or another.

That's why I like 205/50 on 7 and 225/45 on 8 so much, there are no compromises to handling balance or precision and you get the additional benefit of livelier performance.

Yes 7 & 8 w/ stock sized 205/55 and 225/50 is a step up from those same tires on 6 & 7 because of the increased precision you get.

combine that w/ the added grip from new supple and sticky rubber it's like night and day.

Of course 7 205/50(not 205/55) and 245/45 isn't bad, it's just not optimized, The nicest feature over 225/50 is the shorter tire height which noticeably adds to acceleration, just not as well as 225/45 on 8s

[911MANN]

Thank you, Bill. I appreciate it!

[Mr. Merk]

I agree with Bill. A052 or RE71RS are both great tires that work even better on 7 & 8" wheels

[AustinL]

Thanks for all the additional information! Google and Pelican Parts search results are not intuitive in the least for wheel shopping, hoping you experts can point me in the right direction

1. Where is a good place to look for actual Fuchs 8" to match my existing wheels if I decide to move my 7"s up front?
   
2. Alternatively, where's a good place to look for a lighter weight replica full set? A local friend has me seriously considering a dedicated set to avoid screwing up my originals.

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

If you want to optimize an SC/ Carrera using 16s then aftermarket 8ET27 and 9ET12 w/ 225/45 and 245/45, any smaller wheel compromises one aspect or another.

I've been able to translate most of the shorthand except these, what is 8ET27 and 9ET12? Thanks!

[myamoto1]

Originally Posted by AustinL

I've been able to translate most of the shorthand except these, what is 8ET27 and 9ET12? Thanks!

8ET27 = 8" with ET27 offset

9ET12 = 9" with ET12 offset

[darrin]

Offset is the distance between the hub mounting face at the back of the wheel and the wheel’s center line, measured in millimeters. It's the number after the initials "ET" -- the number before ET is the wheel's width. This page/video should help https://konigwheels.com/wheel-info-tech/wheel-offsets-explained/

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by AustinL

Thanks for all the additional information! Google and Pelican Parts search results are not intuitive in the least for wheel shopping, hoping you experts can point me in the right direction

1. Where is a good place to look for actual Fuchs 8" to match my existing wheels if I decide to move my 7"s up front?
   
2. Alternatively, where's a good place to look for a lighter weight replica full set? A local friend has me seriously considering a dedicated set to avoid screwing up my originals.

I've been able to translate most of the shorthand except these, what is 8ET27 and 9ET12? Thanks!

Here's a comparison of 205/50 & 225/45 to 205/55 & 225/50 & 245/45, the 205-225 nets you ~27lb-ft of additional torque available for acceleration, both on the same 7 & 8 Fuchs




If buying a separate custom set I'd look at 17s, There is a much better selection of 17" tires and its far easier to get custom width and o/s(ET)

Here is an efficient set of 7ET23.3 and 8ET10.6 Fuchs compared to an efficient set of 17" custom Fiske's, You do loose ~22lb-ft of torque compared to the efficient 16 set but you are right where you are now w/ stock 16s

The increase in grip is very noticeable even over the efficient 16s

note that the 17s here are 8ET27 and 9.5ET19, you could also use 7ET224 or 25 and 9 ET12 -15, but would lose some grip w/ the narrower wheels


If looking to buy 8x16ET10.6 to match the existing 7ET23.3s, Fuchsfelge sells them new as does Pelican

[Mr. Merk]

Probably won't find lighter wheels than Fuchs

here's a full set with tires that should be discarded due to age
FS: A perfect set of 16x7 and 16x8 FUCHS with tires

[911mhutch]

A052s are excellent an choice.

I personally use an RE71 as my go to 200 "drive a bit on the street and a bunch on the track tire"...

A couple of years ago I couldn't purchase RE71s and I needed tires immediately for an event. Consequently I purchased Dunlop Drizza III. They tried out to be an excellent street and track tire. Not quite as fast on the track as the RE71s, but just a tick off, and good street manners. Ok in light rain.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by 911mhutch

A052s are excellent an choice.

I personally use an RE71 as my go to 200 "drive a bit on the street and a bunch on the track tire"...

A couple of years ago I couldn't purchase RE71s and I needed tires immediately for an event. Consequently I purchased Dunlop Drizza III. They tried out to be an excellent street and track tire. Not quite as fast on the track as the RE71s, but just a tick off, and good street manners. Ok in light rain.

I have a set BS RE71s and a set of NT01s for my 993 both great tires, I used to use Michelin Sport cups but didn't like the relatively slow warm up time for them.

My 911 has Dunlop Direzza * specs, also a great tire.

There are many excellent choice's for sticky rubber today.

[AustinL]

Lots to unpack here, thanks so much for sharing this info. Definitely not a one-size-fits-all consideration. Do you guys think it is necessary to have an extra set of wheels for my purposes? It seems overkill to have a second set for 3-5 track days per year. Any truth to them getting stained by brake dust or the like?

For what it's worth I used to road race motorcycles at a high level so am totally aware of what can happen to equipment on track. However, this chapter of my life focuses on fun track days that I can leave and pickup my wife for dinner in the same car

I would much rather have one set of wheels to deal with, that I may have to put new tires on a bit more frequently, than two sets of wheels.

Originally Posted by Mr. Merk

Probably won't find lighter wheels than Fuchs

here's a full set with tires that should be discarded due to age
FS: A perfect set of 16x7 and 16x8 FUCHS with tires

Good to know! My local detailer who's more knowledgeable about cars than myself said that an aftermarket set of replicas would cut a substantial amount of weight. Then he told me to look at Apex Wheels where I could find a full set for around $1,000. I followed that lead and found Apex does not offer any wheels for this gen car, not on their website anyways. So I took his recommendation with a dump truck full of salt.

That is a great lead on a full set. Somewhat close to me as well. Without knowing much, that cost seems astronomically high. Perhaps why their still available. Any idea what would those go for new?