Engine drop: to tranny or not to tranny?

[Tim Walsh]

Since I've got to pull the engine to clean out all the mice nests and seal any leaks I've got. what would you sugest, keep the transmission and engine together or seperate them? I don't have to do any mechanical work at all, just clean out all the crap that's in the cooling fins

[Jim T]

If you've never done it before, it MIGHT be easier for you to take it down as one unit.

I've done it both ways, many times. If I personally needed to take only the engine out, I'd leave the tranny in the car. I've never had a problem doing that.

That is how just about every shop does it, too. If, for example, they are replacing the clutch, they leave the trans in the car. Its faster and easier and they don't want to waste time. Ask John Walker, for example. I'd guess that he doesn't remove the trans on an engine drop unless necessary.

Again, if you are a first timer, it might be easier to drop as a unit. Some people have a hard time getting the trans and the engine to mate up, and it may be easier if its out of the car. (Using a quality clutch alignment tool, I've not ever had a problem lining the engine and trans up - but it seems to happen).

Clearly, this is an operation that can be done either way - home DIY'ers seem to generally prefer taking out as a unit, shops almost always drop just the engine. The only way for one to really know is to try both, and see which works better for them.

[Leland Pate]

Do not seperate, do not seperate, do not seperate....


Do a search on engine drops.... and "drops" in particular... I will never again try to remove the engine without the gearbox attached.


The only additional things to remove are the CV shafts and the rear torsion bar... it doesn't take that much longer and I think it is a hell of a lot easier. Especially when it comes to reinstalling the motor... you don't have to worry about getting all 4 bolts aligned to the tranny, and you doen't have to break your neck trying to get the T.O bearing lever into the T.O bearing. It is very hard with the tranny in the car.


Just my opinion.

[KTL]

I'll vote no simply because you're doing it at home.

With a shop lift, i'd bet it's much easier to mate the engine and trans. since the car is basically level on the lift. At home, the rear is up in the air so the engine must tilt a bit to slide onto the trans.

I'm sure Wayne will chime in and say just take the motor, leave the trans. He always does! He (and others) obviously have a knack for this and that's how they like to do it.

I'm never in a hurry, so I like to take the motor and trans. together. To each his own.

If it's your first time, maybe you don't want to hassle with mating the engine and trans. Your only concern would be the CV joint bolts. Sometimes they're stubborn.

BTW, I think Leland meant the rear sway bar not the torsion bar.

[Tim Walsh]

That's my initial impresssion that it's not worth seperating the two just drop it in one peice and work on it in one peice. That way I wouldn't have the hassle of mating the two either on the car or off

[VenezianBlau 87]

RE: First engine drop on my '87 Coupe

Thanks to the Pelican board members and the search feature, both helped me decide to drop engine and transmission in one lump. I want to bleed the G50, so disconnecting the hose from the cylinder doesn't deter me.

Along with normal tune up items and newer style cam line orifices, I want to clean both engine/trans to get that "bling" look I admire in everyone's posted pics! Sounds like Simple Green is the hands on favorite on this board.

Also, it will keep me from driving it until I receive my early style muffler bracket upon which to mount my new GHL muffler/SSI's. Currently, only the new exhaust port studs/nuts I installed are holding the assembly on. Neither the early style OEM type muffler or GHL muffler will mount correctly on the Carrera bracket. The bottom of the bracket curves down and backwards too far.

Got my camera ready.

Cheers,
Bob Sauerteig

[MotoSook]

Tim, as others have said, do the two together. Especially with your working conditions, it will be extremely tough to mate the two when you got to do it. It will also give you an opportunity to clean off years of crude on you trans, for potentially better heat dissipation (sic?).

Be careful to disconnect all the lines and whatnot...and when you reinstall, watch the trans mount bolts. It is tough on some cars and you can bung up the threads...(I will be sending funds to help your current project..you know what i'm talking about..sorry for the delay..been swampped at the office).

Good luck.

[Jim Sims]

Drop them together but make some wedges from hardwood or plastic tent stakes; you'll likely need them to separate the CV joint flanges stuck together with the "Spirol" roll pins. Jim

[RoninLB]

a SLOW /Thoughtful combo drop will be easier on the brain for 1st time weekend wrench.......................Ron

[osidak]

haven't read single comment yet but drop them together. Life will be much easier. The only difference is the shift linkage sway bar mounts, ground strap, and speedo / reverse cables. oh and clutch cable

All those items take an additional 20 minutes to do but probably save you 30 minutes to an hour and a lot of head aches.

[BGCarrera32]

The only reason to consider seperating is to avoid potential problems with disconnecting the drive axles. Sometimes the 8 or 12 (whatever #) point sockect head screws strip and make axle disconnect a total pain. Just be prepared if you have lotsa miles and its never been out before. Have new bolts ready for reinstalling the drive axles. However, it is much easier in the long haul to drop the whole unit as intended...that's the way I did mine and it was slick...

[KTL]

Bob,

I'd recommend disconnecting the slave cylinder from the top of the trans. instead of opening the hose and leaving the slave on there. You'll get a bunch of brake fluid all over you! That's never good. It's easy to remove the slave cylinder and then pop the solid part of the fluid line out of the retaining bracket. Two 10mm nuts I believe.

Just take your time and double check everything. It's really quite easy. On the G50, you'll want to slide off the boot on the shift rod from the car side. Don't remove the boot at the trans. end. It's supposed to stay on the trans. Real pain in the rear to put on the trans. after you've got it in the car!!!!

Don't forget the starter wires, throttle linkage on the trans., the DME wire harness plugs on the firewall/rear shock tower, two fuel line connections behind the motor, three DME plugs right next to the left side intake manifold, main harness plug at engine fuse panel, ignition coil wire, O2 sensor plug, heat exchanger hoses, ground strap near trans. crossmember, speedometer sending unit on side of trans., two-piece oil sump line (this can be a bugger to separate), oil tank "S" hose, hose on the rear of the air box, hoses from top of motor to oil tank (disconnect at tank not motor), and whatever else i'm forgetting from memory here at work.

Remember to watch the balance of the drivetrain side-to-side when you're lowering it down. The whole thing is going to want to slightly lean to the driver's side of the car because of the weight of the cat. converter. If you don't have a cat. then you're fine.

Good luck!

[VenezianBlau 87]

Thanks BG and Kevin.

I'm going to print this thread out just to go with Wayne's book instructions and factory manuals and to use as a double check.

I believe that both axle assemblies were replaced as evidenced in records so maybe the bolts are not too set in there by time.

I removed the CAT and original exhaust and now run SSI (brand) HEs and GHL muffler with 3" single outlet.

I'll take your advice on removing the slave cylinder rather than the line.

I also want to replace the original Boge rear shocks with Bilstein HDs (that I don't have yet). Hard to access shock tower with stuff in the way. I will also take this opportunity to remove the entire AC system and auxillary heater blower system and install a block off plate (that I don't have yet).

One thing this car has taught me is that if something goes wrong, just stop and don't make the problem worse. So what if I have to wait a week or two for the Pelican to drop a load at my front door!

Cheers,
Bob Sauerteig

[JTO]

One contrary view: I have dropped the engine and/or engine and tranny six times on my car. Three times as a unit, three times just the engine. For me the engine drop is preferred because of the fact that removing the tranny adds a lot additional work that isn't required. The job I have in mind is the retorquing of the CV bolts. This is a two person job or a very slow one person job (its difficult to get the torque wrench on the bolts and requires a lot of turning of the axles). Also, I find it a pain to reconnect the speedo cable and make sure all of the boots are properly positioned. I also don't like the lack of balance the powertrain has when its being removed. Removing the tranny for me adds a lot of labor. My opinion.

Troy

[KTL]

Troy's post made me think of something.

You must remove the engine and trans. together on the G50 cars. This is because you cannot easily remove the release bearing fork shaft with the trans. in the car. This shaft has to be removed in order to separate the trans. from the engine.

Okay, you may be able to remove the shaft with the trans. in place. But I wanna see somebody say they were able to reinstall the the shaft and the release fork with the trans. still up there!!! That seems next to impossible to me. Those of you that have done this will know to what i'm referring in regards to the removal and reinstallation of the shaft and fork.

[yelcab1]

If you have a shop, a lift, 3 other mechanics around, a tons of tools, then it's OK to drop just the engine.

If you do it at home, and do not want to kill yourself, take them both out.

[JTO]

KTL,

I didn't know that aspect of the Carerra. I speak only from the experience I have had with my '75.

Yelcab 1: I think the "kill yourself" part is a little melodramatic. It certainly isn't anywhere near as risky as you make it sound.

Troy