Another Griffiths AC Install Thread

[ccallana]

Well, I finally went and purchased a mostly complete overhaul of the AC system in my 86 Carrera. Parts shipped today! Scheduled to arrive over the weekend. 5 packages, 80 pounds of new gear...

Stage 1 upgrade:
--New barrier hoses with pressure switch
--Behind rear wheel condenser, rock guard, fan, wiring, etc.
--Receiver/drier
--R134 kit (car currently has R12)
Duehl Kuehl 4th Condenser in front of rear wheel
Upgraded front condenser
Upgraded evaporator
New Denso Compressor
New Thermostat
New Variable controller
Center Vent


Things I'm keeping
--Rear condenser
--Evaporator Fan (hurricane blower doesn't fit in the 86)
--Front Condenser Fan


Will try and post progress as it goes along. I've heard Griff's instructions are the best in the world - so I'm looking forward to that. I've read a lot of threads here on this topic, so not sure I'll be adding anything new - but I have appreciated others stories, so hopefully mine can be helpful to someone else.

[firstclassof86]

I am looking forward to your install. I would like to do the same project on my 86.

[MBAtarga]

+Subscribed - I'm considering the same upgrade for my 83 Targa.

[GH85Carrera]

That is a good list. My Griffith's system replaced every single part, except the front and rear condenser, and I guess the front condenser fan. His fan speed switch is great in that it does not go from "is this on" to "yea I feel some air" to full blast.

It is wonderful to drive in 100+ temps and be totally comfortable, and even cold if I crank it to max.

The biggest "trick" to to get all 27 feet of hoses, and the four condensers, and all the other components free of 100% of all the moisture. Long vacuum pulls and a nitrogen purge are they only way to get all the ice.

[Brian Cameron]

Subscribed
Have to do this sooner or later on my wifes 79 SC

[pavegeno]

Good luck. My system was installed in 2008 in my 88 3.2 Cab and has served me very well!

[garment]

Subbed!

[Uwon]

Think that it’s perhaps appropriate for me to summarize my experience with upgrading my A/C on 911’s. So please bear with me.
Back in about 1999, I had my first experience being a passenger in a 993 sitting in traffic in downtown Toronto in 95 degree scorching sun. I was taken aback as to how effective that A/C was.
So when I decided the convert my ‘86 3.2 to a 3.4 Turbo a year later, I thought, well, let’s replace the A/c compressor with a 993 unit, upgrade the hoses and let’s eliminate the rear condenser and replumb with a 993 condenser in the left front fender…a bit tricky with the impact bumper setup and lack of front “nose” that the 993 has. The result was outstanding…..great A/C and power to boot!
Fast forward to 2009 track day at Mosport where yours truly did a pirouette across the grass by corner three right into the wall and ended upside down. Not a scratch on me save for when I ripped my helmet off without undoing the strap. Car was a write-off, insurance finally paid up after a visit to the Ontario Court of Appeal, and I kept the wreck as the Insurance company never laid claim to it.
A year later I started building a backdated longhood, the RST, utilizing much of good parts from the wreck including the same 993 A/C setup and air outlet system (‘86) as in the wreck….post #104 on page 6 of my build thread

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/748639-evolution-carrera-rst.html

shows the general setup. The system works really well despite its oldish technology even without the fan for the belly condenser. And, yes, I did upgrade the evaporator to a Griffiths with even better results.
I’m now building another hot rod, an S/T which will have the full CR setup with two condensers, one in each of the front wheel wells and upgraded CR alternator. I’ll soon be starting this instal

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1126335-sweet-transplant.html

So, looking back, I’ve been around the block so to speak…it will be interesting to compare my two systems once I finally have the S/T on the road, hopefully this fall.
My guess they will be comparable.
M2CW
Cheers,
Johan

[Mr. Merk]

Originally Posted by ccallana

Things I'm keeping
--Rear condenser
--Evaporator Fan (hurricane blower doesn't fit in the 86)
--Front Condenser Fan

I'd recommend sourcing an earlier evaporator blower lid and retrofitting the Hurricane blower. It's a sweet upgrade.

We've installed a bunch of Griffith front condenser fan motors, but I'm anxiously awaiting an upgraded design from Joe Smallwood here on the forum to test out on a client's M491

[TastyReuben]

Originally Posted by Mr. Merk

I'd recommend sourcing an earlier evaporator blower lid and retrofitting the Hurricane blower. It's a sweet upgrade.

We've installed a bunch of Griffith front condenser fan motors, but I'm anxiously awaiting an upgraded design from Joe Smallwood here on the forum to test out on a client's M491

I just installed a SPAL blower with Joe's 3d printed bell mouth output ducting. i think airflow across front condenser might be 2x, and is now flowing over a wider surface area of the condenser.

[SpyderMike]

One key thing I noticed when installing my hybrid system with front condenser (on a 1985) is that there are some large gaps around the condenser to the body. I used self adhesive weatherstrip foam seal to to force the air through the condenser.

[ccallana]

As Tom Petty once said, The waiting is the hardest part..... shipment now scheduled to arrive on Tuesday...

[GH85Carrera]

I understand many of you want to DYI the AC upgrade parts.

I was not willing to invent the wheel. Griffith's stuff works, and has been perfects for over a decade, and many long road trips.

With no hesitation I will state his Mr. Cool upgrade was the single best project I ever did to my 911.

[pavegeno]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I understand many of you want to DYI the AC upgrade parts.

I was not willing to invent the wheel. Griffith's stuff works, and has been perfects for over a decade, and many long road trips.

With no hesitation I will state his Mr. Cool upgrade was the single best project I ever did to my 911.

Agreed. Living in the South, Griff’s A/C makes the car year-round drivable.

Getting Griff’s Hurricane fan and modifying the evaporator top for the late 80s cars is the way to go. Made a big difference as I didn’t initially do this.

Also, my installer made one error that took me some time to figure out. The temperature sensing probe that gets buried in the core must be away from the edges or it doesn’t sense the deep core temperature. Mine was near the edge, thus warmer than the core, so the compressor never turned off resulting in the freezing of the core. My a/c would be very cold, high 20s, but after about 20 minutes it would start blowing warm air as the core turned into ice. I would have to turn the a/c off and let the ice melt before turning it back on. Once I discovered the probe had been incorrectly installed, I never had an issue again and have consistent vent temps in the low 30s.

Good Luck!

[TastyReuben]

putting together my grifs order now for my sunday funday driver here in SC and and am curious what you guys think:

Will the dual kuehl (2x) condensers in the wheel well combined with the upgraded front condenser be enough to justify deleting the deck lid condenser? OR, would the decklid, single wheel well condenser and new front condenser be better? I would like to be able to delete the decklid condenser and swap between deck lids as simply as possible (dream on?)

Will also be getting upgraded Evap, and already have Grifs blower motor installed with variable speed controller. And a beefy front condenser fan setup.

[blucille]

Funny. I asked charlie about this a lot of times. He didn’t want to answer.

But I will say, the decklid condenser is mostly mounted between the hood hinges with nebular connections to the deck lid itself.

I’ve been moving my 4 condenser setup from my rear-ended 83 911 (totaled) into my 79 SC, a factory AC delete car. I’m about ready to pull a vacuum and see where I’m at. Waiting for ‘the Amazon’ to bring me some r12 to 134 adapters to fit my vacuum pump.

[GH85Carrera]

The real issue with the poor AC performance was lack of condenser area. More is better.

The only original parts of my AC is the front and rear condensers. Well, of course the brackets and vents are original.

I test my AC in HOT conditions, as much of the southern US is HOT.


Here at the International Space hall of fame, my car sat for an hour in full sun. As always, I parked at the far end of the lot all by myself. It was 107 that day. I hopped into a 130 degree interior. Fired up the engine and went to full cold, hurricane blower. Withing 10 minutes I was comfortable, and in 30 minutes I had to turn the temp up and the fan speed down.


It cooled off 2 whole degrees in Roswell that day.



I installed his system back in 2008, and 74,000 miles ago and my only regret was I did not do it sooner.

[ccallana]

All 5 boxes showed up!! (1 Monday, 4 Tuesday)...

Most securely packaged boxes I have ever received. Stapled and taped. Tons of padding inside. Very well done...

Now it is time to read the huge installation manual Griff provided... might even be able to get some of the work started this week.....

[mikedsilva]

awesome... can't wait to see the progress

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by ccallana

All 5 boxes showed up!! (1 Monday, 4 Tuesday)...

Most securely packaged boxes I have ever received. Stapled and taped. Tons of padding inside. Very well done...

Now it is time to read the huge installation manual Griff provided... might even be able to get some of the work started this week.....

Read through it all. He provides the best instructions you have ever had. Take that instruction manual to the garage as you begin the installation. Follow it step by step. He provides every screw, zip tie, and part needed.

You will marvel at the engineering, and say wow, that is a great way to do that as you put it together.

If you can change the oil on your 911, you can do the installation of his system. The only task that the average guy can't do is the charging the system. That is not hard and but the vacuum process to get rid of moisture is the only part different from normal AC system. It is impossible to have too good of a vacuum.

Most of all, enjoy the cool AC this summer.