Lowered 911 Shock/Strut Question...

[fallingat120mph]

Looking at upgrading front and rear suspension and have seen through the years about having a lowered car and using/not using certain shocks.

I am looking at the Bilstein Sports for the rear and Bilstein HD insert for the front. I do have the Boge strut and not sure what is in there.


Only things I've removed for weight is the entire AC system along with center console so weight is pretty standard. Wheels are 16x7/8's. Torsion bars are OEM, swapped from a car with only 65,000 miles on it. Nothing upgraded.


Looking for a nice set up for hard country driving and do take long road trips so am concerned about the sports in the rear. Not adverse to putting HD all the way around.


My biggest concern is with the car being lowered.

Just drove 2000 miles and had no issues, bottoming out, etc...


Some recent shots of the height of the car:








I have read through the years about the sports(rear) and HD(front) and just wanted to hear from some that have had issues/had no issues on lowered cars.



Thanks!
Erik

[TxGerman]

When I did my suspension refresh, I installed the following:

Bilstein B6 Performance (Green) Bilstein 24-001694
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/24001694.htm?pn=24-001694-M512&bc=c&SVSVSI=0574

Bilstein B8 Performance Plus Bilstein 34-050507
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/34050507.htm?pn=34-050507-M712&bc=c&SVSVSI=0574

I have been quite happy with this setup. My SC is also lowered below Euro height.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by fallingat120mph

Looking at upgrading front and rear suspension and have seen through the years about having a lowered car and using/not using certain shocks.

I am looking at the Bilstein Sports for the rear and Bilstein HD insert for the front. I do have the Boge strut and not sure what is in there.


Only things I've removed for weight is the entire AC system along with center console so weight is pretty standard. Wheels are 16x7/8's. Torsion bars are OEM, swapped from a car with only 65,000 miles on it. Nothing upgraded.


Looking for a nice set up for hard country driving and do take long road trips so am concerned about the sports in the rear. Not adverse to putting HD all the way around.


My biggest concern is with the car being lowered.

Just drove 2000 miles and had no issues, bottoming out, etc...


Some recent shots of the height of the car:








I have read through the years about the sports(rear) and HD(front) and just wanted to hear from some that have had issues/had no issues on lowered cars.



Thanks!
Erik

hd/Sport are ok, but a bit over damped for stock t-bars, w/ steel wheels you unsprung weight is much greater than w/ alloys so that's a good thing
3 issues w/ lowering

issue 1 w/ lowering is you lose bump travel, you only start w/ a couple of inches at stock ride height and you lose a bit less than an 1" of shock travel per 1 " of lowering

issue 2 is the roll center goes down way more than the amount of lowering due to the geometry, the lower the roll center the longer the roll lever arm and the more roll is induced per the same degree on cornering

issue 3 is the effect on steering, aka bump steer or roll steer, the further the car is lowered the worse the roll steer curve

cure for issue 1 & 2 is raise the spindle height, this is limited by wheel size and design

cure for issue 3 is rack spacers and/or adjustable height steering knuckle

here is a 911 front
a -b is ride height the larger the value the lower the car
stock low end of spec is 103mm, lowered 1" is ~128mm

c - d is the difference in tie rod end height

roll steer comes from the different arcs that c and the outer end of the A-arm go through, when exaggerated they intersect

the dashed lines show the way to the instant center which defines where roll height is

[PeteKz]

Erik: Listen to Bill V about not lowering your car much beyond the stock settings, unless you install struts with raised spindles.

Second, If you have read some of the other recent threads about suspension setup, you will notice that I am a fan of the Koni Sport externally adjustable shocks. The external adjustment knob allows you to easily tune the ride to your preferences, and even change them quickly for when you go to the track or AX course.

See this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzSzoESEhCQ

[fallingat120mph]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

hd/Sport are ok, but a bit over damped for stock t-bars, w/ steel wheels you unsprung weight is much greater than w/ alloys so that's a good thing
3 issues w/ lowering

issue 1 w/ lowering is you lose bump travel, you only start w/ a couple of inches at stock ride height and you lose a bit less than an 1" of shock travel per 1 " of lowering

issue 2 is the roll center goes down way more than the amount of lowering due to the geometry, the lower the roll center the longer the roll lever arm and the more roll is induced per the same degree on cornering

issue 3 is the effect on steering, aka bump steer or roll steer, the further the car is lowered the worse the roll steer curve

cure for issue 1 & 2 is raise the spindle height, this is limited by wheel size and design

cure for issue 3 is rack spacers and/or adjustable height steering knuckle

here is a 911 front
a -b is ride height the larger the value the lower the car
stock low end of spec is 103mm, lowered 1" is ~128mm

c - d is the difference in tie rod end height

roll steer comes from the different arcs that c and the outer end of the A-arm go through, when exaggerated they intersect

the dashed lines show the way to the instant center which defines where roll height is

Thanks for the information. My old mechanic in San Antonio would draw out similar examples and was very strict on what his shop would do/not do in regards to lowering. I always appreciated his dedication to the engineering from the factory.

I have addressed "issue 3" and looking into "issue 1 & 2"...

Much appreciated!

Originally Posted by PeteKz

Erik: Listen to Bill V about not lowering your car much beyond the stock settings, unless you install struts with raised spindles.

Second, If you have read some of the other recent threads about suspension setup, you will notice that I am a fan of the Koni Sport externally adjustable shocks. The external adjustment knob allows you to easily tune the ride to your preferences, and even change them quickly for when you go to the track or AX course.

See this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzSzoESEhCQ

I have the Koni Sports (adjustable) in one of my shopping carts and my only concern is longevity. Hard to tell what folks are talking about in the threads when they claim they had issues with Konis but don't get specific. I really do like the idea of adjustable shocks - and have read extensively about the Koni(s). Have an updated fully adjustable suspension on my adventure motorcycle and it is a game changer.

Always good to get responses from you two and again, thank you!


Erik

[fallingat120mph]

Originally Posted by TxGerman

When I did my suspension refresh, I installed the following:

Bilstein B6 Performance (Green) Bilstein 24-001694
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/24001694.htm?pn=24-001694-M512&bc=c&SVSVSI=0574

Bilstein B8 Performance Plus Bilstein 34-050507
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/34050507.htm?pn=34-050507-M712&bc=c&SVSVSI=0574

I have been quite happy with this setup. My SC is also lowered below Euro height.

Thanks and those were my first choices - seems like most like those two B6 and B8 - no matter if they mix and match or run consistent all around. I then made the mistake of seeing "what else is out there?" and went to threads from 20 years ago to now and to other forums/websites...the plot then thickened, as you would expect.

I am doing a top end, and converting to 3.4 (with extras), and while the car is down I wanted to refurbish the suspension without breaking the bank, as they say. Live in the country now here in the Midwest and really want to enjoy it on these hilly country roads.

Erik

[PeteKz]

Erik, I have never seen a worn out Koni shock. That said, I'm sure someone has, but they are rare. Another feature of the adjustability is that if the shock loosens up over time, just twist it up one click.

Since you mentioned you have an ADV bike, I also have a KLR650. I put the Cogent Dynamics rear shock on it, and as you said, it was a game-changer, especially since the stock shock is pretty cheap (to keep the KLR price as low as it is). I feel the Koni's do almost the same for 911's.

[Bill Verburg]

shocks fall into 2 main design categories
twin tube - Koni, KW, Boge, some Bilstein's
monotube - Bilstein, JRZ, MCS

twin tube are cheaper, offer more travel, are slower to react, are generally used where comfort is the main goal, some have low gas pressure bags that help reduce cavitation in herent in twin tube design

monotube are more expensive and are more designed for ultimate performance, they are generally stiffer, react quicker and add ~40# to 100# to spring rates due to the high gas pressure used to prevent cavitation, generally ~200psi

no matter the base construction each shock uses different types of valving, some are adjustable, some are inverted, some use mono-ball connections at one or both ends, some have coil over springs some don't

which to use depends on what your goals and use are, for street use you don't want mono-ball connections at both ends, monoball top alone is ok, inverted has many advantages over non inverted, mostly this is a track oriented advantage, coil over are only necessary when you run out of t-bar spring rates, this isn't a street issue at all

our 911s are getting pretty long in the tooth and will require complete suspension rebuilds

for a street car all the rubber bushes f/r need to be replaced w/ stock or sport rubber
back in the day base shocks were twin tubes, w/ Bilstein hd as a performance option, over the years many have found hd front and sport rear Bilstein to be a good way to go.

on a lowered car the biggest concern is reduced shock bump travel, stock front ride height is 107+/-5mm, lower the car to 132mm and you lose an inch of bump travel where there were only a couple of inches to begin w/

a second effect of lowering is worse roll steer

bump travel is addressed by raising the spindle height, roll steer is addressed w/ steering rack spacers and adjustable height steering knuckles

another big issue w/ 911s is the stock roll characteristics, there is too much roll for aggressive street or track use, so, t-bars and sways are upgraded to reduce roll, raised spindles help this by keeping the roll center higher reducing the roll lever arm length.Tthe downside is reduced mechanical grip and comfort so care must be taken to not take it too far, 20/26mm seems to be a good limit for 99% of street use. The upside of bigger t-bars is less roll and geometry stabilization during corning which more than offsets the mechanical grip loss.

in back the issues are much less severe, just make sure bushes and shocks are nominal

when choosing shocks digressive valving is very desirable for grip, control and comfort it's a win win choice for street or track

lastly don't forget wheels and tires, they are your only connection to the road and are very influential wrt grip and comfort. w/ 16 7 & 8 or 7 & 9 is the usual choice for an SC/Carrera w/ 205/55 & 225/50 or 205/50 & 222/45 tires on the 7 & 8 or 205/55 & 245/45 or 225/50 & 245/45 on 7 & 9

[Joesmallwood]

I am trying to digest all of this as the string goes along. I think I understand everything, but I do have a left field question.

My car is an '81 SC: 21/27 t Bars, 225/45/17 up front, 255/40/17 out back, Bilstein HD (green) up front and out back, Eibach adjustable up front and out back in the center position, ride height is 24 3/4" up front and 24 3/8" out back, camber is -.9 and -1.2 up front and -1.5 in the back, toe is zero front/back, and lastly, I drive mostly county/country roads with rally's in the hills - no track or DE.

The question I have is regarding front camber. I would like to target .5 up front, but I can't seem to get the camber any further down than what I have on either side. I have checked for bent struts and not found any witness marks for buckling, plus, the Bilstein inserts are only two years old and I had zero issues taking the old units out and inserting the new units. The camber issue has been present since I bought the car.

What should I look for, check, etc, and if nothing is "wrong", what are options for removing a little more camber? Is targeting -.5 advisable or should I go more? I see LOTS of cars that appear to have very little front end camber for road driving. The rear camber is a mixed bag - some appear to have zero, but some appear to have -2.0+ and everything in between.

And sorry for hijacking for a moment, but this is a good thread to inject a question like this, I think.

[fallingat120mph]

Originally Posted by Joesmallwood

I am trying to digest all of this as the string goes along. I think I understand everything, but I do have a left field question.

My car is an '81 SC: 21/27 t Bars, 225/45/17 up front, 255/40/17 out back, Bilstein HD (green) up front and out back, Eibach adjustable up front and out back in the center position, ride height is 24 3/4" up front and 24 3/8" out back, camber is -.9 and -1.2 up front and -1.5 in the back, toe is zero front/back, and lastly, I drive mostly county/country roads with rally's in the hills - no track or DE.

The question I have is regarding front camber. I would like to target .5 up front, but I can't seem to get the camber any further down than what I have on either side. I have checked for bent struts and not found any witness marks for buckling, plus, the Bilstein inserts are only two years old and I had zero issues taking the old units out and inserting the new units. The camber issue has been present since I bought the car.

What should I look for, check, etc, and if nothing is "wrong", what are options for removing a little more camber? Is targeting -.5 advisable or should I go more? I see LOTS of cars that appear to have very little front end camber for road driving. The rear camber is a mixed bag - some appear to have zero, but some appear to have -2.0+ and everything in between.

And sorry for hijacking for a moment, but this is a good thread to inject a question like this, I think.

Hopefully, someone can give you a good answer. My questions have been addressed, to a point, and hopefully this can help others down the road. Understanding the "physics" of it all is the main point...then it becomes the search of brands, etc.


Erik

[fallingat120mph]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

shocks fall into 2 main design categories
twin tube - Koni, KW, Boge, some Bilstein's
monotube - Bilstein, JRZ, MCS

twin tube are cheaper, offer more travel, are slower to react, are generally used where comfort is the main goal, some have low gas pressure bags that help reduce cavitation in herent in twin tube design

monotube are more expensive and are more designed for ultimate performance, they are generally stiffer, react quicker and add ~40# to 100# to spring rates due to the high gas pressure used to prevent cavitation, generally ~200psi

no matter the base construction each shock uses different types of valving, some are adjustable, some are inverted, some use mono-ball connections at one or both ends, some have coil over springs some don't

which to use depends on what your goals and use are, for street use you don't want mono-ball connections at both ends, monoball top alone is ok, inverted has many advantages over non inverted, mostly this is a track oriented advantage, coil over are only necessary when you run out of t-bar spring rates, this isn't a street issue at all

our 911s are getting pretty long in the tooth and will require complete suspension rebuilds

for a street car all the rubber bushes f/r need to be replaced w/ stock or sport rubber
back in the day base shocks were twin tubes, w/ Bilstein hd as a performance option, over the years many have found hd front and sport rear Bilstein to be a good way to go.

on a lowered car the biggest concern is reduced shock bump travel, stock front ride height is 107+/-5mm, lower the car to 132mm and you lose an inch of bump travel where there were only a couple of inches to begin w/

a second effect of lowering is worse roll steer

bump travel is addressed by raising the spindle height, roll steer is addressed w/ steering rack spacers and adjustable height steering knuckles

another big issue w/ 911s is the stock roll characteristics, there is too much roll for aggressive street or track use, so, t-bars and sways are upgraded to reduce roll, raised spindles help this by keeping the roll center higher reducing the roll lever arm length.Tthe downside is reduced mechanical grip and comfort so care must be taken to not take it too far, 20/26mm seems to be a good limit for 99% of street use. The upside of bigger t-bars is less roll and geometry stabilization during corning which more than offsets the mechanical grip loss.

in back the issues are much less severe, just make sure bushes and shocks are nominal

when choosing shocks digressive valving is very desirable for grip, control and comfort it's a win win choice for street or track

lastly don't forget wheels and tires, they are your only connection to the road and are very influential wrt grip and comfort. w/ 16 7 & 8 or 7 & 9 is the usual choice for an SC/Carrera w/ 205/55 & 225/50 or 205/50 & 222/45 tires on the 7 & 8 or 205/55 & 245/45 or 225/50 & 245/45 on 7 & 9

Thank you sir...

I think I recently saw a post from you that was over a decade (or so) old, writing in agreement, that at the time the Bilstein HD/Sport being a go to for most 90/10 (street/track) folks and reading through the posts the last few nights that's where my research began in regards to lowering, uprated torsion bars, steering rack spacers, etc..

Funny what we pick up through the years (some good advice, some not so much), especially with some threads being over 20 years old at this point. Gets hard to retain it all...so appreciate the input, for me, and maybe future owners.




Again, thanks -
Erik

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Joesmallwood

I am trying to digest all of this as the string goes along. I think I understand everything, but I do have a left field question.

My car is an '81 SC: 21/27 t Bars, 225/45/17 up front, 255/40/17 out back, Bilstein HD (green) up front and out back, Eibach adjustable up front and out back in the center position, ride height is 24 3/4" up front and 24 3/8" out back, camber is -.9 and -1.2 up front and -1.5 in the back, toe is zero front/back, and lastly, I drive mostly county/country roads with rally's in the hills - no track or DE.

The question I have is regarding front camber. I would like to target .5 up front, but I can't seem to get the camber any further down than what I have on either side. I have checked for bent struts and not found any witness marks for buckling, plus, the Bilstein inserts are only two years old and I had zero issues taking the old units out and inserting the new units. The camber issue has been present since I bought the car.

What should I look for, check, etc, and if nothing is "wrong", what are options for removing a little more camber? Is targeting -.5 advisable or should I go more? I see LOTS of cars that appear to have very little front end camber for road driving. The rear camber is a mixed bag - some appear to have zero, but some appear to have -2.0+ and everything in between.

And sorry for hijacking for a moment, but this is a good thread to inject a question like this, I think.

Your car has been lowered by ~50mm+/-, it's hard to be accurate w/ fender #s, a - b is the best way to determine actual height

as the car is lowered w/ no other changes the camber goes increasingly negative, eventually the adjusters run out of range. The only thing to do at that height is to use membered ball joints and/or camber plates

you don't mention what wheels you have but depending on the width and ET yo may run into issues w/ interference at the lip w/ less camber. I run 8x17ET25 225/45 x17 and lower than yours w/ out issues but 7 or 8ET23.3 225/45 is likely to interfere w/o extensive lip massage

That's a really nice wheel & tire combo, you can generate a ton of grip which makes roll geometry worse, the 21/27 tbars & Eibachs really help w/ that


at that height you are roughly 2" lower than stock and have reduced bump travel by almost that amount it' s quite likely that the car is riding on the bump stops if not it's on the edge of doing so, you really need to raise the spindles, according to Elephant you could go +40mm w/ 17" wheels but I'd be conservative and go 30-35mm

additionally the steering is whacked and you would need to raise the outer and/or lower the inner ends of the tie rods, rack spacers are only ~11.5mm max

at ~160mm ride height, rack spacers and +30 spindle and ~9mm raise of the steering knuckle should put you in the right ball park

[Joesmallwood]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Your car has been lowered by ~50mm+/-, it's hard to be accurate w/ fender #s, a - b is the best way to determine actual height

as the car is lowered w/ no other changes the camber goes increasingly negative, eventually the adjusters run out of range. The only thing to do at that height is to use membered ball joints and/or camber plates

you don't mention what wheels you have but depending on the width and ET yo may run into issues w/ interference at the lip w/ less camber. I run 8x17ET25 225/45 x17 and lower than yours w/ out issues but 7 or 8ET23.3 225/45 is likely to interfere w/o extensive lip massage

That's a really nice wheel & tire combo, you can generate a ton of grip which makes roll geometry worse, the 21/27 tbars & Eibachs really help w/ that


at that height you are roughly 2" lower than stock and have reduced bump travel by almost that amount it' s quite likely that the car is riding on the bump stops if not it's on the edge of doing so, you really need to raise the spindles, according to Elephant you could go +40mm w/ 17" wheels but I'd be conservative and go 30-35mm

additionally the steering is whacked and you would need to raise the outer and/or lower the inner ends of the tie rods, rack spacers are only ~11.5mm max

at ~160mm ride height, rack spacers and +30 spindle and ~9mm raise of the steering knuckle should put you in the right ball park

Excellent and helpful info.

I will take a look at the a - b ride height measurement method this weekend to confirm my current ride heights. That said, it sounds like my height is, generally, low enough to consider the other factors in your note.

My wheels, the best I can discern, are Linea Corse wheels that are 17 x 7/9. I don't know what the offset is, TBH. I'll have to try to measure this and write it down to review at some point. Pics below for the visual of where it was two weeks ago - zero camber in the rear and .9/1.2 in the front.

What I have decided to do is to pull the struts, raise them 30mm, add the Elephant racing weld on bump steer kit (w/strut reinforcements), and reinstall in an attempt to correct all of the geometry issues that I might be fighting. To be honest, I can't tell if I am riding on, or super close, to the bump stops on the struts, or not. It's been this low since I replace everything a couple of years ago and rides MUCH better than it did before with 40 year old struts. That said, I will dive into the bump stop question, as well.

From reading, some folks suggest pulling one (of three) bump stops off the strut for "normal-ish" setup/driving. From memory, this is what I did. Reading more, some folks suggest pulling two bump stops out, leaving one, for lowered cars. With my plan above, is there a suggestion on whether 1, 2, or 3 bump stops is the right answer or is there some math that I can do to figure it out (point me to where to reference and I can go from there)?

As always, all of the input from folks on Pelican is super appreciated and helpful for folks like me still learning these cars and how to optimize/customize them for our individual tastes.

And, FWIW, following this thread in the first place has taught me much more than I knew a few days ago.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Joesmallwood

Excellent and helpful info.

I will take a look at the a - b ride height measurement method this weekend to confirm my current ride heights. That said, it sounds like my height is, generally, low enough to consider the other factors in your note.

My wheels, the best I can discern, are Linea Corse wheels that are 17 x 7/9. I don't know what the offset is, TBH. I'll have to try to measure this and write it down to review at some point. Pics below for the visual of where it was two weeks ago - zero camber in the rear and .9/1.2 in the front.

What I have decided to do is to pull the struts, raise them 30mm, add the Elephant racing weld on bump steer kit (w/strut reinforcements), and reinstall in an attempt to correct all of the geometry issues that I might be fighting. To be honest, I can't tell if I am riding on, or super close, to the bump stops on the struts, or not. It's been this low since I replace everything a couple of years ago and rides MUCH better than it did before with 40 year old struts. That said, I will dive into the bump stop question, as well.

From reading, some folks suggest pulling one (of three) bump stops off the strut for "normal-ish" setup/driving. From memory, this is what I did. Reading more, some folks suggest pulling two bump stops out, leaving one, for lowered cars. With my plan above, is there a suggestion on whether 1, 2, or 3 bump stops is the right answer or is there some math that I can do to figure it out (point me to where to reference and I can go from there)?

As always, all of the input from folks on Pelican is super appreciated and helpful for folks like me still learning these cars and how to optimize/customize them for our individual tastes.

And, FWIW, following this thread in the first place has taught me much more than I knew a few days ago.

best guess on the wheel ET is 7 ET23 & 19 ET15, that puts the installed tire front space a bit further out than I like at both ends of the car, the front is fitting mostly because of the high neg camber unless you shave the front lips

personally i don't like removing the bump stops they are there for a good reason

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by fallingat120mph

Thank you sir...

I think I recently saw a post from you that was over a decade (or so) old, writing in agreement, that at the time the Bilstein HD/Sport being a go to for most 90/10 (street/track) folks and reading through the posts the last few nights that's where my research began in regards to lowering, uprated torsion bars, steering rack spacers, etc..

Funny what we pick up through the years (some good advice, some not so much), especially with some threads being over 20 years old at this point. Gets hard to retain it all...so appreciate the input, for me, and maybe future owners.




Again, thanks -
Erik

Back then some knew what was what, some knew some of what was what and most needed to learn

there were also far fewer options on how to approach different issues

things have coalesced and become more focused over the years

not to mention more expensive

[fallingat120mph]

Alright, one final thing...

I have found the below available for the rear:

B6 Club Sport Version (Yellow)
Setting: 1800/1645

B6 Rally Version (Yellow)
Setting: 2855/1400

*B6 Sport Street Version(Yellow) - Sold by most distributors it appears.
Setting: 3365/1645

*And...B6 Standard Version (Green)
Setting: 1965/1330


Seems our host and most others are just selling the Sport Street Version going by the product numbers.

I have had track cars used on the street and the ride was "not pleasant" as my wife would say. I had to agree...

So, my (almost, hopefully?) final question would be...just going by the numbers and wanting comfort and quality, is there a real feel difference between the Sport Street Version and let's say the Standard Version in regards to a 10, 20, 50% seat of the pants noticeable difference - especially on the road/long road trips.

Seems most throw on the Sport Street( Yellow) on the rear with HD in the front and love/like it.

Seems "firmer" (damping) in the rear is a good start...I just don't want the tail end to feel like bricks especially here in the Midwest. BUT...to my limited knowledge this has some to do with updatd torsion bars vs just stiffer shocks?


I drive almost daily...it will have a 3.4L in it this spring, and will see 90% back country roads so for this car the track is not a primary concern...

I know it's all a personal take, one mans harsh ride is another's perfect ride...but I just don't see much info/reviews on the Club Sport Version or Rally Version and wonder if there are users out there.



Thanks-
Erik

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by fallingat120mph

Alright, one final thing...

I have found the below available for the rear:

B6 Club Sport Version (Yellow)
Setting: 1800/1645

B6 Rally Version (Yellow)
Setting: 2855/1400

*B6 Sport Street Version(Yellow) - Sold by most distributors it appears.
Setting: 3365/1645

*And...B6 Standard Version (Green)
Setting: 1965/1330


Seems our host and most others are just selling the Sport Street Version going by the product numbers.

I have had track cars used on the street and the ride was "not pleasant" as my wife would say. I had to agree...

So, my (almost, hopefully?) final question would be...just going by the numbers and wanting comfort and quality, is there a real feel difference between the Sport Street Version and let's say the Standard Version in regards to a 10, 20, 50% seat of the pants noticeable difference - especially on the road/long road trips.

Seems most throw on the Sport Street( Yellow) on the rear with HD in the front and love/like it.

Seems "firmer" (damping) in the rear is a good start...I just don't want the tail end to feel like bricks especially here in the Midwest. BUT...to my limited knowledge this has some to do with updatd torsion bars vs just stiffer shocks?


I drive almost daily...it will have a 3.4L in it this spring, and will see 90% back country roads so for this car the track is not a primary concern...

I know it's all a personal take, one mans harsh ride is another's perfect ride...but I just don't see much info/reviews on the Club Sport Version or Rally Version and wonder if there are users out there.



Thanks-
Erik

The yellow Bilstein sport rear shocks are all shorter than the green hd and are better for a lowered car

I'd want the Bilstein Sport 24-009676 aka Club Sport rears( 180/164) unless you are having them revalved, if revalving any of the sports are fine

[fallingat120mph]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

The yellow Bilstein sport rear shocks are all shorter than the green hd and are better for a lowered car

I'd want the Bilstein Sport 24-009676 aka Club Sport rears( 180/164) unless you are having them revalved, if revalving any of the sports are fine

I was looking at the Club Sports rear along with the 34-001141 front HD inserts (Green have you) which show 150/116 for comparison.

Both are available and with all new bushings, etc...feel like that is a good balance. I am gun shy due to past suspension mistakes and this car is a daily/cross country car.

I think that would be a nice set up...vs my still decent but very used set up I have now.


Erik

[Bill Verburg]

All I can say is that I'm very happy w/ Bilstein hd(greeen) front and the Club sport(yellow rears) w/ 20/26 tbars

I've driven man, many of these and find stock t-baars to light and from 21/27 up too hard for street use w/ lw profile sporting tires

[fallingat120mph]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

All I can say is that I'm very happy w/ Bilstein hd(greeen) front and the Club sport(yellow rears) w/ 20/26 tbars

I've driven man, many of these and find stock t-baars to light and from 21/27 up too hard for street use w/ lw profile sporting tires

Factory TBs here, which if memory serves is 19/24(25)? The TB are like new, very low mileage, so wasn't going to update at this point.

So for me and my country driving and long cross country drives I am looking for softer compression and a firmer rebound for the best ride - which would mean the Club Sports (180/164) vs the Sport Street (365/164)...all with stock torsion bars.


That's about the last of my concerns. Really appreciate your and all others input and advice.


Ordering this weekend and in the end, like most suspension updates/upgrades from trucks to motos a lot of trial and error. Thank God for the classified section here for those of us making mistakes along the way............


Erik