Recaro Pole Position '87 Carrera install best practices? Southbound Trimmers mounts?

[famoroso]

Greetings all,

I just ordered a pair of Recaro ABE Pole Positions, from Gert Carnewal, for install into my '87 911 M491. While I adore the factory sport seats that are currently fitted, I'm looking forward to the more purposeful Pole Positions and the accompanying weight savings.

What I am not looking forward to is the seat and seat belt receptacle mounting trial and error. I have searched here and Rennlist and have not found definitive best practices for mounting Pole Positions in a late G Body. If anything, I've seen a lot of trials and tribulations (i.e. if Bill Verbug found Pole Position install challenging, including the Brey Krause option, that doesn't bode well).

Further exacerbating my install is that at 6' 2" tall, and long of torso, I would like to maximize headroom as much as practicable (my kingdom for a sunroof delete!!!). I'd like to maintain slider adjustability if at all possible, but I'll mount the driver's seat directly to the floor if that's the only option.

Gert suggests the aluminum Recaro side mounts and Recaro sliders, but I'm concerned about headroom. For the seatbelt receptacle he's suggesting the 964 RS bracket that mounts between the side mount brackets and sliders (raising the height of the seat further still).

One option that I have seen mentioned are the Southbound Trimmers side mounts. https://www.southboundtrimmers.com/ Supposedly they mount the seat lower than the Recaro side mount. Can anyone with firsthand experience opine? Unfortunately, they won't ship to the USA, but I can work around that if their side mounts are, in fact, the right solution for my needs.

Any and all help, or tips & tricks, from the Pelican collective would be HUGELY appreciated.

The car is being built as a mildly wife-unfriendly M491 "Club Sport" hot rod streetcar...

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by famoroso

Greetings all,

I just ordered a pair of Recaro ABE Pole Positions, from Gert Carnewal, for install into my '87 911 M491. While I adore the factory sport seats that are currently fitted, I'm looking forward to the more purposeful Pole Positions and the accompanying weight savings.

What I am not looking forward to is the seat and seat belt receptacle mounting trial and error. I have searched here and Rennlist and have not found definitive best practices for mounting Pole Positions in a late G Body. If anything, I've seen a lot of trials and tribulations (i.e. if Bill Verbug found Pole Position install challenging, including the Brey Krause option, that doesn't bode well).

Further exacerbating my install is that at 6' 2" tall, and long of torso, I would like to maximize headroom as much as practicable (my kingdom for a sunroof delete!!!). I'd like to maintain slider adjustability if at all possible, but I'll mount the driver's seat directly to the floor if that's the only option.

Gert suggests the aluminum Recaro side mounts and Recaro sliders, but I'm concerned about headroom. For the seatbelt receptacle he's suggesting the 964 RS bracket that mounts between the side mount brackets and sliders (raising the height of the seat further still).

One option that I have seen mentioned are the Southbound Trimmers side mounts. https://www.southboundtrimmers.com/ Supposedly they mount the seat lower than the Recaro side mount. Can anyone with firsthand experience opine? Unfortunately, they won't ship to the USA, but I can work around that if their side mounts are, in fact, the right solution for my needs.

Any and all help, or tips & tricks, from the Pelican collective would be HUGELY appreciated.

The car is being built as a mildly wife-unfriendly M491 "Club Sport" hot rod streetcar...

The Southbound side mounts are an elegant solution/alternative to the traditional Recaro al. side mounts w/ the RS hardpoints. The Southbound emulate current factory practice of mounting the tunnel side 3 point hardpoint on the side mount rather than under it ala RS.

For track use I'd still want the harnesses to be bolted directly to the chassis

The Southbound side mounts will allow the seat to be mounted 4mm lower because the thickness of the RS mounting tab and associated leveling washers is eliminated.

[75 911s]

I test fit my ABE with aluminum Recaro side mounts, and Recaro sliders in my 75. They sit pretty high. For my project 77 I’ll be cutting the rails in the chassis and moving them back and down 2-3 inches. I’m 6’6” but i also have done a sunroof delete and the headroom is at zero. With my other modified turbo style seats I have like 6” of headroom. The Recaros sit really high and close for tall people.

[ian c2]

Nice photos !!

I can’t help with your seats , but I can say I used southbound trimmers around 20 years ago and Had no issues .

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

The Southbound side mounts are an elegant solution/alternative to the traditional Recaro al. side mounts w/ the RS hardpoints. The Southbound emulate current factory practice of mounting the tunnel side 3 point hardpoint on the side mount rather than under it ala RS.

For track use I'd still want the harnesses to be bolted directly to the chassis

The Southbound side mounts will allow the seat to be mounted 4mm lower because the thickness of the RS mounting tab and associated leveling washers is eliminated.

Excellent! Thank you!

Anyone have a pair of Southbound side mounts for sale?

Originally Posted by 75 911s

I test fit my ABE with aluminum Recaro side mounts, and Recaro sliders in my 75. They sit pretty high. For my project 77 I’ll be cutting the rails in the chassis and moving them back and down 2-3 inches. I’m 6’6” but i also have done a sunroof delete and the headroom is at zero. With my other modified turbo style seats I have like 6” of headroom. The Recaros sit really high and close for tall people.

Precisely as I feared. Ugh!

The Sportster CS seats are an amazing option and bolt right up to the factory sliders / rails, but they aren't what I'm going for and they weigh 2X the Pole Positions.

Did I mention I don't like sunroofs?! 🤬

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by ian c2

Nice photos !!

I can’t help with your seats , but I can say I used southbound trimmers around 20 years ago and Had no issues .

Thanks. Ted7 is THE MAN!...
https://www.instagram.com/p/B3IH1mtAHcE/?igshid=b7184b5yrgjh

Gettin' our dyno ON post 3.4 build...
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAc9qxyFNC0/?igshid=1briqgyz4yw27

[samurai_k]

I used the planted side mounts. They are adjustable and can get the pole position rear part (where your @rse sits in) of it flush with the recaro sliders to get you as low as possible without having to direct mount into the tub. The front part has a few slots so you can adjust the seat rake too.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by samurai_k

I used the planted side mounts. They are adjustable and can get the pole position rear part (where your @rse sits in) of it flush with the recaro sliders to get you as low as possible without having to direct mount into the tub. The front part has a few slots so you can adjust the seat rake too.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Thank you.

So your pic is: Planted side mounts and Recaro slider? What seat belt receptacle provision?

[jfl503]

I had a PP mounted using brey krause side mounts on recaro sliders in a 964 - install was pretty straight forward. I used RS mounting tab w leveling washers to secure the receptacle.

I sat lower with this setup than with recaro side mounts. I think the bk sides mounts were R-9062

[SkunkWorks]

I've the Southbound side mounts on my SPG's bolted to the factory sliders. Works great.

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by SkunkWorks

I've the Southbound side mounts on my SPG's bolted to the factory sliders. Works great.

Which factory sliders? Those look like the Recaro sliders?

[samurai_k]

Hi,

Yes, "standard" planted side mounts. Notice they are perpendicular to the floor. The ones that curve in are for the spg (narrower recaros) and the ones that curve out are for the spg xl (wider recaros) as a FYI.

They are mounted to standard recaro sliders.

The seat belt buckle bracket is a 928/964 part. You sandwich it between the slider and the side mount. Also need some thick washers to make the sides level one all four corners since that bracket adds a space between the slider and side mount. There is a great seat install thread I learned all of this here...

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums%2Epelicanparts%2Eco m%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D451099&share_tid=451099&share_fid=844&share_type=t&link_source=app



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[famoroso]

Seats, side mounts and Recaro sliders have arrived! They're A-mazing! Now, I just need to figure out the best way to mount them.







Last night's test rig...

[75 911s]

Fantastic! Can't wait to see these in that blue beauty!

[famoroso]

I mounted up the passenger side Pole Position Classic and, as expected... it's AWESOME!

Looks killer, feels GREAT and I gained some headroom, which is a *BIG* plus...





Best of all, you get to drop ~46 lbs for the pair vs. the late sport seats...






I need to source black hardware and I'd like to have the aluminum side brackets black anodized (or perhaps Cerakoted).

I do not like the idea of mounting the 964 Carrera RS inboard seatbelt anchor (964 521 065 00) between the aluminum bracket & slider. I know this is standard operating procedure, but I don't like the idea of raising the seats even 3mm.





So, I'm contemplating drilling a 16mm hole in the side of the aluminum bracket and mounting the anchor from the top / inside (vs. between the bracket and slider on the outside). Something along these lines...







Then drill two new holes on the bottom of the anchor (one for an M8 fastener and one for an M6 fastener) to line up with the existing M8 & M6 holes in both the aluminum bracket and steel sliders.

Finally, I just finished up the rear bumperette delete / Euro crush tube swap, and M&K Active Exhaust pre-muffler & 1 in/out install. All of that, combined with the Pole Positions, will net a 70 pound weight savings.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by famoroso

...


I do not like the idea of mounting the 964 Carrera RS inboard seatbelt anchor (964 521 065 00) between the aluminum bracket & slider. I know this is standard operating procedure, but I don't like the idea of raising the seats even 3mm.





So, I'm contemplating drilling a 16mm hole in the side of the aluminum bracket and mounting the anchor from the top / inside (vs. between the bracket and slider on the outside). Something along these lines...







Then drill two new holes on the bottom of the anchor (one for an M8 fastener and one for an M6 fastener) to line up with the existing M8 & M6 holes in both the aluminum bracket and steel sliders.

Finally, I just finished up the rear bumperette delete / Euro crush tube swap, and M&K Active Exhaust pre-muffler & 1 in/out install. All of that, combined with the Pole Positions, will net a 70 pound weight savings.

You can do that or Just buy the Southbound trimmers and avoid all the work, up to you

Here are some pics of the Southbound mount

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

You can do that or Just buy the Southbound trimmers and avoid all the work, up to you

Southbound Trimmers mount is steel, correct?

Do you have a part number?

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by famoroso

Southbound Trimmers mount is steel, correct?

Do you have a part number?

yes,I believe they are steel but don't know for sure, I used the regular RS belt mounts and aluminum Recaro sides, but that is what you want if you are bolting the belt to it

You need to contact them

[gsxrken]

Those seats look great.
So do the stock sport seats but I get it. Those should be able to fund this entire project, no?

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

yes,I believe they are steel but don't know for sure, I used the regular RS belt mounts and aluminum Recaro sides, but that is what you want if you are bolting the belt to it

You need to contact them

Makes sense, thx.

For the ABEs, I assume I want this seatbelt buckle receptacle...



...inside the seat bolster (versus outside)? Like this...





If so, I doubt the above pictured rigid 10" long receptacle is the correct piece as, once mounted to the Carrera RS anchor, I doubt it would make the bend through the opening and into the inside of the seat bolster. I suppose a non-rigid version is what I need. If so, anybody have a part number?

If not, am I thinking about it incorrectly and should the receptacle be outboard?...