Hp junkie Mods - How do they effect $ value?

[Shawzy]

There has been some great threads on adding turbos/superchargers, swapping engines etc to stock cars with the goal of more Hp and increased performance.

I love the idea of putting a turbo on my SC...but...

I have been hosed for the idea by others with the lecture "keep the car stock - it will hold it's value better"

can anyone comment on this with any certainty? eg. if i put a turbo on my SC will it lower it's appreciation significantly compared to a stock SC in the same condition? I may be willing to sacrifice some future value for a bigger present smile, but i would like to have an idea of what that sacrifice might be.

i suppose after-market modifications will effect the value of the car depending on the future buyer - someone who loves the idea of a turboed SC might pay more for it.

any thoughts appreciated...

[Schuey]

I would never buy an SC with a turbo on it...why? it wasn't on it to begin with and you never know what the PO did with that thing...items like SSI's, sport muffler, performance chip, etc. shouldn't hurt the car, but something like the turbo IMO would...

and like you said, maybe an old turbo guy would want your SC b/c you have it...

[island911]

I would say big performance mod's underscore the word "USED"

Very few people can pull off a well-sorted, highly tweaked 911 (they're pretty good "out of the box" )

For those whom do pull off a well-sorted, highly tweaked 911, they are NEVER going to find some one to buy the car for what has been put into it. Not even close.
Development engineering is expensive. . .especially when done by trial and error using Porsche grade parts.

[5axis]

A perfect example of a very well done car going for a fraction of the build price. Stephen Kaspar's monster FS.

"Stephen has told me it's some what difficult to hook up since at just 1 bar your laying down over 600rwhp around 2.5k rpm's! You can increase the boost for even more power, so you can imagine. It's a steal at $60k for sure but how much trouble can you get into is the question. Then you need to make sure someone is even capable of working on it if Stephen isn't your mechanic."



http://www.911turbo.com/turboclub/board/board.php?messageID=28896

[turbo6bar]

Originally posted by 5axis
"Stephen has told me it's some what difficult to hook up since at just 1 bar your laying down over 600rwhp around 2.5k rpm's!

Is it even possible to make 600rwhp at only 2500 rpms? I assume this engine is a stock displacement or nothing ridiculously huge. It would have to flow what, 1000+ cfm @ 2500 rpm? I would like to know what it can do at 4500-6000 rpm.

Jurgen

[island911]

5-x,
Damn!



Jurgen -- Refenc: top fuel dragsters put out 750HP . .. per cylinder!

[5axis]

Jurgen. No kidding, call Stephen and talk turbo. He is a great guy just to chat with. No hype, just a love of Porsche turbos.

Back to the topic, My guess is you would be closing in on or past the 60 to build the motor. Power haus had a similar motor, used, for around 50 something.

[arrivederci]

You'll have to first look at all of the other major factors that go into car values. For Porsches, its partially dependent on # produced. desireability, age, original price and condition (among other things).

The worse condition its in, the less desireable the model, etc -- the smaller the impact on value. Say swapping a 3.6 into a '72 911T. Not a wise move on a concours car...if you're thinking of selling it someday. But on a daily driver (much more grin value for me than a garage queen) its another story. You won't get your $$ back, but a 911T worth roughly $9K would likely be worth more if it had a properly transplanted healthy 3.6.

OTOH, 930s with basic bolt on mods don't seem to lose much value...they possibly even gain value. I paid a little more for my 930 just because it had a few of the mods that I had planned on doing anyways (aftermarket intercooler, boost controller, rod birch sub/stereo, etc).

If its likely that someone would desire those mods, then it shouldn't have a large negative impact on resale. Slant nose kits, IMO, will hurt resale.

[Mike Feinstein]

I don't think you would necessarily reduce it's value over a stock one, but you would significantly reduce the number of potential buyers.

[rattlsnak]

I sold my SC, which was converted to a C2Turbo, (engine, brakes, wheels, body, etc..) for almost exactly HALF of what I had in it, which in turn was almost double what a similiar year SCs are going for.

[dean]

Alot of good posts above. I have done the turbo motor install in my SC. I have a bunch of money in my car. If I were to do it over I would sell the SC and buy a turbo and dump a ton of money in that.

[hobieboy]

Blown (Dean) & Rattlsnak said it for me... if you really want to get back what you put into the car, then keep it 110% stock

But, I also have a 930 and have also put a ton of money in it.
And don't plan to sell it anytime soon

[rick conrath]

You never really get your money back when you make serious mods to an otherwise stock car...that is unless you buy at the right price, and do something so trick that a new buyer just has to have it. I sold my pristine SC to a friend just because I know that it was a matter of time before the bug bit, and I was adding a turbo or Knoxville supercharger. For once in my life I did the smart thing...I saved an original car and bought a 930 that was in reasonable shape.
I am currently modifying my 930 with a TT setup just like the monster. That's ok since I expect to lose my shirt if I ever decide to sell. This was the vehicle that I always really wanted, so modifying it fits into my plan. Resist the urge to sink big dollars into a car that you are not absolutely in love with since these projects always take longer and cost more than you are wiling to admit even to yourself.
Rick
'78 930

[Schrup]

I think some HP items add value ie: SSI,stainless muffler,& good suspension mods. I would not buy an SC with a turbo because it hurts it's reliability. I think engine swaps are fine as long as they're done by a reputable person. I would love to pick up somebodys well sorted $50k hot rod for $20k When I bought my SC I looked for a reason to pimp it, but the PO took such good care of it that I feel obligated to restore it to factory condition. I think that in another 20 years that pristine concours beauties will be more coveted than pimped out rockets, especially with the trend in new cheaper, faster, rice sleds hitting the streets every year.

[turbo6bar]

Wow, this thread is more insightful than I expected. I really would love to stuff a turbo on my SC, but my heart is set on a 930. I guess I'll just enjoy my car as is until I eventually make the jump, probably when my insurance isn't so crazy expensive.

My SC is pretty much stock, but has gone through ongoing refurbishing work after 250k+ miles.

jurgen

[BennyBroadcast]

Some very good replies to this topic. Being an aspirant owner I must say that a clean, stock car has the most appeal. Having seen many "performance modifications" done to cars I know that often the last 10% of the job is the hardest and often results in things being done hastily. This is usually the part that lets go and stops the car! A stock car is more of a known quantity than a modified one subsequently the cost of the mods can never be recovered at resale time as their value is subject to individual opinion. The exception may be a properly executed engine swap, say a 3.6 substituted for a 3.0. That would get my attention.

[tbitz]

I say do what you feel like. It's not like your gonna ever sell the car, ARE YOU?

[dd74]

I think for cars like ours, in addition to other specialty cars, basically two mindsets go into their purchase. One wants to drive it, the other wants to collect it.

In my business, "collector" invariably involves "seller." Some collectors love to think of their collection as having potential value. Our art business tries to discourage that thinking when purchasing our products. Using animation art is "looking" at it, not spiriting it away to a darkened closet, and not at all thinking, "How much will this vintage Batman piece be worth in five years?" That only sets one up for a fall. Too many variables are involved - economics, popularity, etc.

I bought my car because I wanted something exciting to drive. I modified my car because I wanted it to be better (in my mind) than when I purchased it. I never thought of it as an investment, except from the principles of it being fun to own and drive. And everyone knows cars are the worst possible investments known to modern economics.

These days if one wants a good investment, it should entail property, i.e. a house, office or apartment building.

[Jack Olsen]

A lot of good opinions, here. I think it boils down to common sense. A 911 is going to retain a certain base value if it's unmodified and reasonably well-preserved. It's going to provide a neutral starting point for whatever owner happens to buy it.

Some mods, like chain tensioners and pop-off valves are going to slightly increase value. Others, like suspension improvements, are going to increase value, but the car will appeal to a smaller pool of buyers.

Still other mods, like engine swaps, aftermarket turbos or superchargers, are going to, uh, 'jeopardize' value. The idea of exposing an engine to significantly more stress than it was designed for is going to scare off more buyers than its going to attract (although it might still attract some). The same goes for radical internal motor mods.

Why? Well, it's not the mods themselves (although too much boost can cause problems). The problem is the fact that potential buyers have so little knowledge of the competence of the people doing the modifications. Andial building a motor out to the max is not the same as some guy in his garage doing the same thing -- although both motors might happen to be just as good. Andial has a reputation built from a lot of repeated successes. Supercharging of Knoxville and Turbo Performance Center are good outfits, but even they can't vouch for every place that installs their kits. Porsche makes fine motors, but it's easy to screw up an installation in a swap.

If it's important to retain your investment in a 911, then only do reversable mods. If you accept that the 911 is an expense like any other form of entertainment, then modify it at will. You might be able to sell it without losing everything you invested, but you'll definitely lose some of it.

[thrown_hammer]

I have a 1973 911T. I would of never even looked at it if it was stock. I don't worry about the "next owner" I am the last owner!
(Fully prepared to eventually eat my words )