Identifying Boge vs Sachs struts

[85RedCarrera]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

Dave, as Bill and others have pointed out here many times, suspension setups require juggling trade-offs. Thus, if there's any way you can drive other people's 911's with different setups, you should do so.

Are you a member of PCA? If not, join, and if so, check around your local region for members with modified suspensions. Explain to them what you have written here, and ask if you can test drive their cars. Most PCA members will be happy to discuss and demo their cars and let you drive them. Another source: Go to a local PCA-sponsored autocross and chat with the drivers about their cars. Many AX 911's have suspension mods, some mild and some extreme.

That said, I think you're gonna find out that increasing the T-bar size is one of the first mods people do (along with changing the shocks) for a couple reasons: It's relatively inexpensive; it decreases the roll of the car; and it allows the ride height to be lowered a little more without bottoming. For a street car, keep it conservative: 20mm front/26mm rear, or a little more sporty but still good for the street, 21mm/27mm.

Don't agonize over what's "best". Pick something a bit more than stock, and spend time driving your car. That's what you bought it for. After you drive it for a few thousand miles, you will have a better idea of how you use it, and whether you want to make other tradeoffs for your uses. And, you'll have fun doing it.

Good advice, Pete. Yes, I am a PCA member- Sacramento region. I'll check the calendar. The bottom of this car has already been "run aground" a couple of times by PO's, and so I was already contemplating a T-bar change down the road. This will probably end up being "Phase 2" of this mechanical restoration project.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by ccallana

I'm trying to decide between taking my HD/Sport Bilsteins out and having them revalved or just getting a new set of Vons... I'm not sure I'd notice a difference if they are both valved for the same car setup... only real difference at that point is the lower bushing on the rears with Vons is not rubber... and I think the Vons are shorter....

Vonn's are digressive revalved Bilsteins, I'd go that route, They have 4 options depending on t-bars used,

Steve Weiner used to claim that the rear yellow Bilstein sports were shorter than the regular green Bilstein hds, Chuck @ Elephant says not. I'll measure mine when I get the chance.

I wouldn't worry about the bushing but in any event bushes can be changed. My 993 has an RSR all mono-ball suspension w/ not a spec of rubber to be found and yet is quite streetable.

[ccallana]

Originally Posted by 85RedCarrera

Good advice, Pete. Yes, I am a PCA member- Sacramento region. I'll check the calendar. The bottom of this car has already been "run aground" a couple of times by PO's, and so I was already contemplating a T-bar change down the road. This will probably end up being "Phase 2" of this mechanical restoration project.

Not many Air Cooleds show up for SVR PCA events - only a few of us Folsom/EDH CnC is a good place find more local cars... If you are willing to drive - EASY happens 1st Saturday of the month in Emoryville (basically next to Pixar) - lots of old 911s there... We are planning on going this weekend...

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by 85RedCarrera

Good advice, Pete. Yes, I am a PCA member- Sacramento region. I'll check the calendar. The bottom of this car has already been "run aground" a couple of times by PO's, and so I was already contemplating a T-bar change down the road. This will probably end up being "Phase 2" of this mechanical restoration project.

By all means talk to as many aficionados as you can.
again unless you have as a min 7 & 8 either 15 or 17(16 is a tire wasteland, sort of like the Boge/Biilstein) 205/225 tire set you are largely wasting $ w/ just shocks or just t-bars

where you are now wrt to shocks is sort of the worst place to be as is 6 & 7 wheels

the Boge/Bilstein combo throws away some of the nice Bilstein features like upside down shock while retaining some of the worst like the linear valving w/o a blowoff provision

If the car is lowered it's worse as the already short ~3.5" of compression travel is further reduced while the steering geometry also deteriorates.

JMO but you need to make a choice to either of the more viable routes
stay w/ high pressure mono-tube shocks for the precision and control. There are several sub routes here, i.i full Bilstein(customized or not), MCS, JRZ, Penske

or

go to a low pressure twin tube w/ longer travel, more comfort at the cost of less control, i.e. Koni, KW

I'm not sure where Ohlins fits here as they just don't publish that info,

or
go really crazy w/ the newest e-control Tractive offerings

[85RedCarrera]

Originally Posted by ccallana

Not many Air Cooleds show up for SVR PCA events - only a few of us Folsom/EDH CnC is a good place find more local cars... If you are willing to drive - EASY happens 1st Saturday of the month in Emoryville (basically next to Pixar) - lots of old 911s there... We are planning on going this weekend...

I have seen a few air cooled 911's at CnC, but could not locate the owners! Emoryville is definitely a drive for me, so I will keep trying CnC. Thanks!

[85RedCarrera]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

By all means talk to as many aficionados as you can.
again unless you have as a min 7 & 8 either 15 or 17(16 is a tire wasteland, sort of like the Boge/Biilstein) 205/225 tire set you are largely wasting $ w/ just shocks or just t-bars

where you are now wrt to shocks is sort of the worst place to be as is 6 & 7 wheels

the Boge/Bilstein combo throws away some of the nice Bilstein features like upside down shock while retaining some of the worst like the linear valving w/o a blowoff provision

If the car is lowered it's worse as the already short ~3.5" of compression travel is further reduced while the steering geometry also deteriorates.

JMO but you need to make a choice to either of the more viable routes
stay w/ high pressure mono-tube shocks for the precision and control. There are several sub routes here, i.i full Bilstein(customized or not), MCS, JRZ, Penske

or

go to a low pressure twin tube w/ longer travel, more comfort at the cost of less control, i.e. Koni, KW

I'm not sure where Ohlins fits here as they just don't publish that info,

or
go really crazy w/ the newest e-control Tractive offerings

I do have 16" 6 & 7 wheels, so I guess I am in a wasteland right now.

The info that you have provided is a lot to digest, but it makes sense. My original plan was to make a small improvement in the enjoyment of driving my car, since I definitely need new dampers and tires (15 year old General Grabbers on there right now).

I can see that a complete suspension upgrade is going to have to be better planned ($$$$) and will have to be pushed into "Phase Two"... at least two years out for me

Unexpected replacement items, such as a severely cracked fan shroud, both rear hubs and a cam housing, have put me so far outside of my budget that I must put off serious upgrades if I want to drive the car anytime soon.

Using the info you have shared here, I am going to continue my research and start putting together a plan for these phase two upgrades, as they seem well worth the effort and the cost.

For now, I guess I just need a replacement shock for the BOGE's and some 16" tires. I will be putting in HD rubber bushings everywhere, as well.

Thanks,

Dave

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by 85RedCarrera

I do have 16" 6 & 7 wheels, so I guess I am in a wasteland right now.

The info that you have provided is a lot to digest, but it makes sense. My original plan was to make a small improvement in the enjoyment of driving my car, since I definitely need new dampers and tires (15 year old General Grabbers on there right now).

I can see that a complete suspension upgrade is going to have to be better planned ($$$$) and will have to be pushed into "Phase Two"... at least two years out for me

Unexpected replacement items, such as a severely cracked fan shroud, both rear hubs and a cam housing, have put me so far outside of my budget that I must put off serious upgrades if I want to drive the car anytime soon.

Using the info you have shared here, I am going to continue my research and start putting together a plan for these phase two upgrades, as they seem well worth the effort and the cost.

For now, I guess I just need a replacement shock for the BOGE's and some 16" tires. I will be putting in HD rubber bushings everywhere, as well.

Thanks,

Dave

Nothing wrong w/ 6 & 7 x16 Fuchs for street use but for the more performance oriented driver
7ET23.3 & 8 ET10.6 Fuchs are a big step up, switch to 205/50 & 225/45 x16 tires for the full benefit. This is the sweet spot for 911 16s, though there are arguments for 9s w/ 245/40 in back.

For the even more demanding driver there are even bigger gains to be made w/ aftermarket custom ET 15 or 17, up to 8 & 9.5 w/o going to 930 fenders

whether 15 or 17 is better largely depends on the drivetrain and intentions.