Starter Replacement Frustrations

slider · 09-02-2003, 11:04 AM

I haven't had my SC for very long, but I've always been able to read about and then implement a fix - until this past weekend. The starter has been acting up over the past couple of months...the typical won't-even-crank-after-hot kind of deals.

So I read up the Pelican tech piece on replacing starters, read Wayne's book, bought the replacement motor and felt ready to get this done.

Undo the neg on the battery, disconnect all the starter wires and quickly make work on the visable 10mm barrel hex nut. Alrighty then...I'll be done by lunch. Then the struggle...access to the second barrel nut is blind and following the tech article procedure of bear-hugging the tranny, I was able to reach the nut. But, to my dismay, there was only about 2-3mm worth of bite for the hex key. The nut is hollow and, without washers, the more you tighten the nut, the further the stud goes into the nut - in this case leaving very little room for the poor guy who ever wants to change their starter.

After much additional research on Pelican (thanks Jon Green) and after spending several hours finding 6 in long 10mm hex wrench and working with grinding paste, I was still unable to remove the blind barrel nut. So I put it all back together again, drown my frustration in a couple of beer, and decided that I'll pay someone to tackle this one.

If anyone has any other suggestions, other than to drop the motor (no time, not enough experience), I'd be grateful to hear them.

Joe

RazorRacer · 09-02-2003, 11:14 AM

Now I see how lucky I was when I changed my starter. I remember that nut being a real bugger. I guess I got lucky that my mis-aligned socket wrench had enough bite to lossen the nut.

Mike Feinstein · Mike Feinstein's Garage

Joe,

I did mine in my Carrera last winter. It's a bit of a PITA, but well within your capabilities. The good news is, you don't have to drop the motor. The bad news is, you have to drop the transmission!....sort of. Disconnect your rear sway bar, throttle linkage at the gearbox, and ground strap. Also, disconnect your shifter linkage at the front of the transmission (10mm nut I believe). You can get to this from under the panel in front of the rear seats, or by sliding the boot up from under the car (just in front of the tranny mount bar). With a hydraulic jack under the transmission, remove the two 19mm bolts at the front mounts. Now, gradually lower the transmission about 6" by lowering the hydraulic jack. You will now have plenty of room to reach the upper barrel nut and take it out.

It's easier than it sounds and you'll be glad you did it yourself.

Best,

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

I think it's a lot easier on your 915 than with a G50, and mine wasn't all that bad. Of course, it helps if you have access to a lift. See David Riley's new lift below as kstylianos looks on.

It's a very doable job. We actually did it twice, as we did not wire it correctly the first time and pulled the whole thing out again to figure out what was wrong. The 15 min. you spend prepping and lowering the tranny will more than pay for itself in the time and aggravation you save getting to that barrel nut.

yelcab1 · 09-02-2003, 11:48 AM

Don't know why you only have 2-3 mm of engagement depth. Maybe the previous owner did not install the stud properly and it sticks out too far.

In my case, 2 things helped:

1) a long, 10 mm allen socket, with a round-ball end so that you can pivot it a bit helped. I had to make this myself.
2) a 3/8 inch flexible head ratchet with a slightly bent handle.

Both allow for some flexibility of where to engage the barrel nut, and it came off. I remember to always replace that nut with a new one so that it does not get mangled up too badly. And, in your case, if you ever get the nut off, be sure to screw the stud in a little bit further.

makaio · 09-02-2003, 12:14 PM

Joe,
Is the engagement of the wrench the problem or the stud turning when you turn the barrel nut?

This is by no means above the scope of an average DIY'er. Heck, the starter on my brother-in-laws S-10 pickup was much more difficult.

john walker's workshop · 01:41 PM

the 79 trans won't lower like the 87 on. without the washer under the barrel nut, all you can do is use a long 10mm allen socket with a freshly ground tip, or a new one. the valve grind compound helps get a grip sometimes. failing that, an engine lowering is the next step. various hoses, the wire plug at left rear, the shift coupler in the unnel, whatever would get stretched needs to be disconnected. lower just enough to deal with the nut. visegrips, hammer/chisel, whatever. a dremel could be used to grind a dimple in the end of the tool for a tad more depth.

slider · 09-02-2003, 01:25 PM

Wow - thanks everyone for the comments.

John - I used a freshly cut 10mm allen. Basically cut the smaller "L" side off and had about 6 in worth of allen wrench which I inserted into a 10mm socket. At 6 inches, it came out just a tad further than the starter itself so I was to gain valuable space for the 1/2 rachet...hell, even had room for a breaker bar...and still not budge...d'oh! Now I fear I've only rounded off what little bite I had. Amazing the effect of some German technician 25 years ago forgetting to add a couple of washers...

Matt - actually you raise an interesting question since I had to do this by braille, but I'm pretty sure it was just not having enough of a "socket" for the wrench to slide in to.

yelcab1 - Craftsmen makes a tool as you describe. the problem for me was that the rounded edges only made it more difficult to get a good bite.

Mike/Richard - thanks for weighing-in and for the pix...but I think I'm going to have to follow John's lead on dropping the tranny. Would have loved the opportunity to get after this #$%$$ nut.

Joe

xlr8 · 09-02-2003, 02:26 PM

Hi Joe, I had a similar no-crank problem with my '88 Carrera several months after getting it. I thought I would have to replace the starter, but after reading several posts here I decided to check the wiring thoroughly. My battery terminal connections were clean, but I removed the negative cable to check the connection where it bolted to the body. When I got the cable out of the trunk and into the light I saw that it was not copper colored, but covered with a layer of corrosion. It looked like a piece of green rope! This corroded cable would pass enough current to operate lights and radio, but had too much resistance to pass the heavy amperage required to turn the starter. I cleaned it, re-installed it and have not had a problem starting since. Thanks to the BBS, it was a simple $0 fix. The transmission ground strap could also be a problem area.
Good Luck!

slider · 09-02-2003, 03:57 PM

Thanks Russ. What did you use to clean the neg cable? And where does it connect to the body?

This will probably help, but the starter - when it does work - makes a kind of sick cranking noise and I'll sometimes get a short low harmonic grinding noise just after start up. Pretty sure that can't be good....

tbitz · 09-02-2003, 04:57 PM

When I had my motor out, I had the bright idea of replacing the allen nut with a hex nut in anticipation of having to remove this in the future.

My solenoid is giving me problems now when the engine is very hot, so I will be tackling this project in the near future. I will let people know if this was a bright idea or not in the near future....