BRAKES, help me send Wayne money today. need advice

[lendaddy]

I have Grattan coming a week from Saturday, and I need to get my brakes settled. I want to order today so I can install this weekend. What do I need? Here is what I have so far. '77 930


1) Mintex pads front and rear (I like what I have heard)

2) ATE super blue fluid (how much should I get and can it be shipped via air)

3) Motive power bleeder (does Wayne carry this and or is there a better option?)

4) '89 turbo master cylinder. Mine is toast and I was told this is a great upgrade. Does it bolt right on, or require mods such as lines etc..?

5) 12 premium beers in long neck bottles

My rotors are in great shape and were new last time so I will not replace or turn.

Thanks guys, and maybe I'll see some of you at Grattan?

[Rot 911]

1. I prefer pagid orange, but just a personal preference.
2. A one liter can will completely replace the old fluid with some to spare.
3. Yes Wayne carries it. It is the BEST option.
4. Don't know
5. 12 should cover the pad and fluid change. May need more as changing out the master cylinder is a *****.

[JK-81SC]

Maybe get a brake pad retainer kit if your clips and pins haven't been replaced in a while. I also went with the stainless braided hoses when I did my brakes. I couldn't feel a huge difference on the street, and haven't tracked the car yet. Tranny needs rebuilding before that can happen. Good luck at Grattan!

[RallyJon]

If the Mintex pads are the Red Box "street" pads, they won't hold up on the track unless you drive like a granny. Make sure they're at least the "C-Tech" 1155 compound. If you have the original brakes, Mintex doesn't make a performance pad for the S caliper.

[lendaddy]

Rally Jon, thanks! What would you reccomend then? Guys, any info on the MC swap? Is this gonna lick the big one? Thanks

[RallyJon]

Here's what I found when I was looking. I ended up getting the Porterfield R4S. They work fine on the street, but I haven't doen any track days on them. I hear they're OK only for DE, 20 minutes at a time or they'll overheat:

Ferodo. Can't find DS2000s (nla?) or DS2500s. I have found references that people have DS2000s in S calipers, though. The ones Wayne sells are OEM replacements and not DS2000s.

Hawk - nope

Pagid - Orange only - no street pad

Mintex 1144 or 1155 - nope

Performance Friction - nope

Porterfield - R4S (fast road/light track); R4 (track only)

KFP (formerly Cool Carbon) - Choice of three compounds.

Kool Kevlar - apparently yes (never heard of them, except cited by a vendor on an old Rennlist thread)

[Slider79SC]

I have used the "KFP (formerly Cool Carbon) - Gold" for quite some time now and I am very happy with them. They stop very well and do not eat my rotors like Hawk or Pagid.

As far as the MC swap. What calipers do you have on your 77? Are they turbo or no-turbo (SC style) And do you have manual or power assist brakes. That is the biggest factor in changing an MC.

I put a turbo MC on my SC with just the turbo calipers on the front and the pedal was WAY to stiff.

[lendaddy]

I have the original 930 fronts and rears. They are I believe the same as "S" brakes of that vintage. Yes I have a booster, is that gonna be worse ? Thanks

[Slider79SC]

So if I understand the vintage correctly, your calipers are not the same big a$$ ones that came on the 78 and up turbo, right. They are more the size of an S, SC, Carrera caliper?

If that is correct, I would be very careful about your MC choice because if you go too big your bias may be wrong and the pedal may be to stiff (lock up).

See if you can contact Bill Verburg (spelling?), he seems to really know all the great stuff about brakes.

[lendaddy]

No, they are not the '78 and up brakes. The '75-'77 930s had the "S" brakes from the normal 911.

[Slider79SC]

Then I would be very careful to choose the right MC. You could also call Steve W. at http://www.rennsportsystems.com he is very well respected.

Great car by the way, I have been following your posts...

[APKhaos]

I believe that Porterfield, KPF/Cool Carbon, and Kool Kevlar are the same pads - different distributors with different brands on the same product. The track compound [R4 in Porterfield-speak] is fine for street use. They may squeak very slightly just as the fronts come to a stop.
Very rotor friendly. For track use, some brake cooling [cool brake kit or the AJUSA kit] will double the life of almost any pads. Really!

The current price for my 85 Carrera is $176 for four axles from Pete Tremper at Der Six - 1 888 881 7049. Pete is a great guy, really knows brakes, is one of the fastest/smoothest drivers around, and seems to drive at almost every east coast PCA event.

No association - just a very happy customer.

[KTL]

For anybody curious, here's the stuff that Ferodo currently offers:

http://www.raceshopper.com/ferodo_compounds.shtml

Don't know about available compounds for the S calipers though. An email to them would get you a quick answer. Edwin's a really nice guy. Would be nice to get them from Wayne?

Bill Verburg could answer your MC question.

The Motive Power bleeder rocks. Best bang for the buck you'll find as far as tools.

Valvoline SynPower brake fluid is right up there with the ATE stuff (temp. specs are slightly below the ATE stuff) and is widely available at your local parts stores. It's compatible with all DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids.

Clean your rotors of the old pad material so your new pads will bed-in better. A sheet of crocus and brake parts cleaner is what's been recommended to me.

[lendaddy]

Thanks Slider! Things have been coming together lately in all respects. I appreciate everyones help so far. Looks like pad choice is the stickler here. Also I just looked at my MC and I can imagine the swap is that bad, what am I missing?

[Bill Verburg]

You do not want to use the later 930 m/c w/ your early calipers. It will drasticly increase the amount of pedal effort necessary and even power assist won't help that much.

I would stick w/ tried and true Pagid Orange for your track use and Blue for the street. Ferodo does have some great pads but their availability is sometimes spotty.

[Slider79SC]

Lendaddy,

The MC swap is not bad at all. After I had done it once I was able to knock out the next one in 15 mins. Do you have "101 projects"? There is a good writeup in there. If not, search the tech articles here.

[lendaddy]

Thanks Bill! I know that a few people told me to change to the '89 MC, but I cant remember why. I trust your opinion and appreciate your advice!

[lendaddy]

Slider, yep I have 101 so it should go smoothly. Thanks.

[Bill Verburg]

The big m/c should be used w/ the big 930 brakes.

[Don Plumley]

Another vote for the Motive pressure bleeder. Two suggestions: 1) buy some good quality fluid from your local retailer to use as a flush before introducing the super blue. 2) After you pressure bleed, have someone give the brake a press and bleed just a bit more out of each cylinder.

Have fun!