Questions about a 3.2 in a SC

[aigel]

oh, one more thing. Is it likely that the exhaust valve guides go out all by themselves, without the intakes also being old?

George

[88 Club Sport]

Thanks again to all that pitched in with advice. Well, she's home and I'm excited to rip into this project. Wonder if my boss would give me an advance on next quarters bonus

The car is solid as suspected. No rust to be seen at all and while I'm not a lover of the color of the interior, it is clean. A couple of sport/race seats, my harnesses and bar from the CS and the interior will be adequate to get going. A roll bar and a light weight black interior will be down the road.

Not sure exactly where to start but I think I'll order up some Sanders 22/29 mm torsions and a set of Bilstein sports to get the suspension going. Since this is being done with a budget in mind, I think I'll look for a set of sway's from a '86 as they were 22mm front and 21 rear vs the 20/18 of the SC. I know I'll want adjustable bars later but this would be a good start/compromise. Thoughts on going the '86 sway bar route vs. adjustable bars?

Craig

[Jess]

Craig,

Great deal on your new car!

It will be a great track car for you, I'm sure. You've got a ton of things to consider as you begin your modifications.

As someone races here in Colorado, I think I can offer you some good advice.

I would definitely plan to install a front, center mounted oil cooler. The thinner air here dissapates less heat than at sea level. I've screwed around with various coolers and ended up with a mocal but fluidyne makes a nicer one. Save yourself the time and money and just get a big one out of the gate. You'll need it eventually and they cost less than a Carrera cooler/fan set up. Dave at Dart Auto can get you one.

Since your car is to be a track car, I'd go with larger bars than you're planning. I agree with using Sander's but I'd use 23 and 31. This is the current hot set up in Club Racing.

As far as sway bars, I think I'd just leave alone what you've got until you can buy adjustables. I don't think you'll notice a difference between the earlier and later stock ones, especially with bigger torsion bars.

All of this sort of assumes that you will end up Club Racing in the future. If this is the case, pay attention to the rules (downloadable from the pca site) so that you don't end up doing things twice. By the way, you would run in F stock which is a very competitive and fun race group thoughout the PCA (also the one I run in).

There are many of us, local to you that have done just what you are planning. Feel free to PM me if I can be of any help.

Jess

[KTL]

Craig,

I would definitely include replacement of the suspension bushings in your plans. 1978 bushings have most likely gone south long ago. Upgraded shocks and t-bars are certainly a wise choice, but new bushings are going to be the most effective way to give the car the precise feel you desire while racing. The suspension cannot respond properly if the bushings are tired. Since you have to pull the spring plate anyway to replace the rear bars, the bushing replacement is a wise "while you're in there" thing to do. Plus, the new bushings are cheap (depending on which you choose..........) components that play a large part in how your cars feels- literally.

With only 62K miles on the clock, my car was very sloppy feeling when I first got it. Especially in the steering wheel. At speed, the wheel was really light in my hands and it had an excessive on-center dead area. After refreshing the front suspension (shocks, t-bars, ball joints, bushings, tie rods, rack relube), the steering feel is much more connected to the road and the on-center response is excellent. Feels more like a track car than a road car now.

[88 Club Sport]

Jess,
Thanks for your info regarding the cooler/torsion bars. I pm'd you with my contact info so we can talk live. I'm interested in whether you'd go with 23/31's if the car was to be driven to and from the track and what front bumper/valance you are using for a center mount cooler. Look forward to hearing from you.

KTL, do you have a recommendation for bushings?

Craig

[KTL]

Craig,

I replaced mine with rubber bushings. Neatrix/Weltmeister in the rear and SmartRacing's replacement service for the front control arms. It'll be interesting to see how long the rubber ones withstand the stiffer t-bars. Probably should have gone with the Weltmeister street poly bushings.

If I had to do it again, i'd probably suck it up and spend the money for Chuck Moreland's/Elephant Racing's super cool polybronze bushings. They seem like a great compromise for a street/track car. I especially like how you can lube them (and keep them lubed) via the zerk fittings he pre-installs for you. These bushings appear to be the best for ease of installation too. No custom fitting needed.

For the budget minded, the Weltmeister street or track poly bushings are good, but they need some custom fitting to prevent binding. Which can be a bit time consuming the first time you do them.

There was recently a BIG topic about the bushing work.

A-arm rubber bushing installation advice needed.

[aigel]

So, what's the big deal about a squeak here and there? Poly GRAPHITE, the graphite in the material will lubricate things. I don't get the fact that folks start greasing the heck out of poly graphite bushings and machine around on them. If that were needed, it would come like it from the manufacturer. I stuck my bushings in there and have nothing to complain about. In cool weather, if I go over a speed bump, I might hear something. So what?

I had to go in for other reasons and looked at the bushing. Sure enough, after a while, on the inside towards the A arm, there is a nice slippery graphite looking surface. Things are good...

Cheers, George

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by aigel
So, what's the big deal about a squeak here and there? Poly GRAPHITE, the graphite in the material will lubricate things. I don't get the fact that folks start greasing the heck out of poly graphite bushings and machine around on them. If that were needed, it would come like it from the manufacturer. I stuck my bushings in there and have nothing to complain about. In cool weather, if I go over a speed bump, I might hear something. So what?

I had to go in for other reasons and looked at the bushing. Sure enough, after a while, on the inside towards the A arm, there is a nice slippery graphite looking surface. Things are good...

Cheers, George

First off, I've had the Weltmeister "street hardness" A-arm bushings for years with hardly a squeak.
I also lucked out; mine didn't require machining either.

The harder "race" poly bushings are more prone to squeak.
The factory rubber bushings flex to accomodate movement i.e. they aren't a rubber bearing. By contrast, the poly bushing act as bearing. As such, at least one surface will slide against metal - hence the source of squeaks and the need for lubricant. The graphite bearing is not slippery enough.

Because the factory rubber bushing flexes instead of acting like a bearing, the dimensions of the bushing and the surfaces it contacts are not held to very close tolerances. Heck, the rubber is even bonded to the metal surface in some cases. Thus the need for custom fitting and machining when using a non-rubber bushing/bearing.

-Chris