CIS to EFI kit

[rpiper]

I'm interested in seeing some dyno numbers in order to determine if this is a good stand alone mod. If you're doing a rebuild it is a great way to go because it frees you up to choose whatever cams and pistons you would like; you are not hampered by the CIS's shortcomings (i.e. restrictive intake with flapper valve that prevents use of hotter cams). However, if you have a freshly rebuilt engine with perfectly functional CIS, I wonder how much it would help. In my case I have Euro SC (9.8:1) Ps & Cs, 78 heads, 964 cams, SSIs and the car makes 195 at the wheels. The 964 cams are as hot as I can go due not only to the CIS but also the pistons. If I used the hotter cams that the new efi would allow, the valves would hit. So if I did this kit it would be simply to get efi; I wouldn't get any of the side benefits. So I'm going to wait and see the numbers.

[hawaiipcar]

Anyone have any updates or figures yet on installed systems????
I will be installing one soon and was just wondering.

[Lukesportsman]

I will adventure to say that I'm not the only one interested in the manifold.
Criteria for me:
1. Costs similar to other auto makes for custom intakes: Ford Hogan is about 700-1000. Cheaper would always be a plus
2. Must improve looks towards performance or simplicity. That is always a big draw for me to ITB's
3. Simplicity of application. Why make something complicated when it is not required.
4. Strong enough (wall thickness and TIG welds) to handle 1 bar boost
5. Maybe offered both ways, but at least in one form for drop in Bosch injectors.
6. Injector spacing the same so that the existing EFI kit can bolt right on.
7. Kind of goes without saying, but balanced good flow numbers between runners. I would build it with enough meet to port match to different heads and enough flow to support a 3.4l engine build.

This way I can see one continous upgrade pattern from the Pelicanites: Bolt on EFI, then High flow intake, and then Turbo kit for SC. No ones competing technology and therefore everyone benefits from the forums strength.

If this can all be figured out, I might just become an SC wanna be....at least engine wise. Sure a lot simpler than the 3.6 route with OBDII with its tranny issues in my early car.

[irnwill]

I picked up an airbox on ebay and decided to cut it up like Tonys' install
I put a filter on the hose that comes out of the AAR and on the Oil filler tube. Lots of room now.

[radcon]

irnwill,

That definitely cleans up the engine compartment. Where did you get the air filter apparatus from?

[tbitz]

Hey! that looks like my engine bay! (Except for the air filter).

Looking real nice Will. I like your airfilter setup. I ended up making my own from scratch.

[Leland Pate]

This is looking more and more like the route I want to take with my SC.

My CIS has been starting to act up lately (that's a whole new thread) and this EFI thing sure looks like the way to go.

Man. The only thing really holding me back is the desire to own a 930 in the near future. Well, maybe I won't get promoted.

[ohecht]

Tony,

I noticed the Megasquirt team is coming out with a second-generation soon that seems to have some good features, like automotive-grade housing for the ECU, integrated wide-band O2, and ignition control. I am curious about your thoughts on that and how easily it would work with your kit.

Olivier

[A Quiet Boom]

Luke,

Individual throttle bodies would make the setup not only more costly but also not necessary when running boost. In fact I've only seen one car in my life with ITB's and boost. The idea I've been kicking around is an aluminum sheetmetal intake in the style of a Pro Stock drag intake. Basically a center plenum fed into tubes that curve down to flanges that incorporate injector bosses. Production would be a challenge though since I don't have a CNC mill. If I could find someone with a CNC mill to make the head flanges and a few othe parts in bulk it could be a reasonable cost manifold. Perhaps even in the 800-1000 dollar range. Don't hold your breath though since I'm at least 6 months from even building one for myself. Then I'd have to decide if it would be worth it to pursue building them for others. Given the time involved I'm not sure I'd want to get into it. On the other hand if I could get one of my friends to help with the work for a share of the profits I might be more interested in it. At this point a modified stock plenum or the aluminum plenum in another thread is going to be the cheapest bet.

[tbitz]

Originally posted by ohecht
Tony,

I noticed the Megasquirt team is coming out with a second-generation soon that seems to have some good features, like automotive-grade housing for the ECU, integrated wide-band O2, and ignition control. I am curious about your thoughts on that and how easily it would work with your kit.

Olivier

The next generation unit called "Ultra-MegaSquirt" is still in development. The designers are making it more feature rich than the current unit.

The current MegaSquirt unit has been around for a couple of years now and all the problems have been fixed. The reason MegaSquirt has been so successfull is because of it's simplicity. I think the newer version will become fairly complex and it may be a few years before all the bugs have been ironed out.

The current MegaSquirt does everything that is really needed for EFI conversion. It can even retard timing based on boost/rpm without too much trouble (I am looking into this). I see no reason for the added complexity.

[jhelgesen]

Originally posted by A Quiet Boom
Luke,

... or the aluminum plenum in another thread is going to be the cheapest bet.

I would think the limiting factor on 1 bar boost on my aluminium box would be the stock rubber boots between the runners. The first sample is being mig welded, but the production units will be TIG. I would guess we could use braided hose couplers to secure any boost. What kind of intake changes would you need for a turbo application?

[A Quiet Boom]

Originally posted by jhelgesen
I would think the limiting factor on 1 bar boost on my aluminium box would be the stock rubber boots between the runners. The first sample is being mig welded, but the production units will be TIG. I would guess we could use braided hose couplers to secure any boost. What kind of intake changes would you need for a turbo application?

Yep it's the need for the intake to expand laterally with the engine that makes design difficult. For your rubber boots I suppose you could use silcone boots/sleeves like that used for turbo plumbing and roll a bead into the tubing on your plenum.

Generally speaking a turbo intake needs a good size plenum, typically larger than a NA plenum. I'm not certain on the requirements for a 911 engine.

[1fastredsc]

I don't see why you can't use the stock rubber boots with boost. 951's can run 1 bar all day with stock rubber boot plumbing to and from the intercooler and to the throttle.

[avendlerdp]

I agree. Lots of turbo cars have rubber hoses for their intakes. I had a turbo'ed Mazda 323 awd that used a pair of long rubber hoses to and from the intercooler and it ran 19 pounds of boost.

Alex

[RickM]

Silicone is used in high heat areas. If the rubber piece is sturdy enough it can definetly be used in the cooler intake areas.

Is there an inexpensive tool to roll a bead in existing pipe?

[jhelgesen]

Okay, so the rubber should work fine.

We can make a fixture to flange the lip of the tubing if needed.

[banjomike]

There is a thread for the efi turbo conversion. Let's keep this about the cis to efi conversion only. It's cleaner that way (just like we all want our engine compartents!)

911SC (with CIS to EFI) Turbo Conversion

[Lukesportsman]

NO turbo talk here, but I will discuss intakes since I think it is a direct issue with conversion to EFI and part of the benefit available by this switch.

Quiet Boom (didn't catch your name), I actually wasn't thinking ITB's on your intake. Unnecessary cost in my opinion and if so you're probably going with a much more expensive EFI actually. No, I was thinking Prostock/Super Comp style too which is why I brought up Hogan intakes. I was just describing the simply look versus the plumbing nightmare of CIS or any 80's EFI.

I agree that though I've seen a few ITB with boost it becomes a mute point especially for anything less than full competition.

If you designed the original flanges or even fab'd a prototype you could look at some of the smaller header manufactors. They might be a lot cheaper going by their current flange prices over a custom intake shop. Being that its in aluminum, machining costs should be down. Have you considered having it cut with water instead of a traditional bur CNC? I've seen some smaller shops with this tech already.

Since we are already using Bosche injectors, can we go with a standard TB off the shelf like for a Mustang since they are simple and round. We are just talking hypothetical here....I know your not getting at this right away. Just thought a combination of peoples ideas might make it simpler for the builder.

[tbitz]

Folks, I've spent alot of time trying to find ways to re-use as much of the existing Porsche components in this EFI kit to keep the cost and complexity down.

There is no need for fancy aluminium ITB, no need for pretty polished mustang throttle body, no need for fancy titanium airboxes with MIL spec silicon boots.

This kit was designed with the "form follows function" philosophy...

[geert924]

Tony, will your injector bungs fit a 924 na ?? This
car has a bosch K-jetronic intake system (CIS).

I really love what you're doing!

geert924