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Cool

I would be interested.

I believe that there are good alternatives to the CIS unit. I believe that you have a very good product idea.

The guys at megasquirt could probably care less if you make some bucks as a supplier of megasquirt. Just make sure that they get a few for their problems.

I think that you could do this venture in several ways.

1. Offer the entire kit. This is for the guy in the garage that just wants to get it going.

2. Offer it in logical sub systems of the kit. The total of the subsystems cost more than the entire kit.

3. Offer it as a mega squirt ECU kit, assembled and unassembled. And provide a list of parts necessary, plus diagrams of how this EFI system could be assembled. This manner could be done as virtual files on a disk or similar method.

Option #3 would benefit the hobbyist of Porsche to assemble the thing out of used production parts available at the salvage yard. It would also help you concentrate on providing custom pieces necessary to do this job correctly. Such as fuel rails, maybe a wiring harness, (easy to make).

Megasquirt previously have stated that they are working on a unit that controls ignition too. This would be the killer unit for you to offer as this would be the basis of a twin plug ignition system. This thing then could be offered to the CIS guys. At that point a change in pistons and cams and watch out. These things would really fly. This unit could be just offered as an ignition control for just those running carbs but would like to run twin plug ignitions. Talk about a killer application!

You could do this in batchs. That way you wouldn't have to maintain a large inventory. My guess is, that you need to find a machinest that has a home shop. They can turn out a small quantity of products for you with good quality. Probably a lot better than you are buying now for parts.

Pricing will always be the lowest denominator. Your total kit price will have to be lower than the cheapest replacement. Probably old used carbs.

I do beleive that there are some good margins here, however don't count on this as an income! There are a finite number of cars out there that this will work with as a replacement. You will see only a small percentage of them.

Having a reliable distributor for your parts, ie Pelican Parts, will help get the message out. Wayne, himself would be interested in this if he could see a few bucks. (Farrari parts you know!)

Yes, there is a market out there. This is an idea whose time has past since come!

Good luck, Merry Christmas
David Duffield

Last edited by Oldporsche; 12-13-2003 at 12:19 PM..
Old 12-13-2003, 09:08 AM
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answers to some more questions:

How much boost do you think the CIS intake box will take? With or w/o popoff (w/o I would think)?
I haven't done any testing to know for sure, but if you think that it has to be stong enough to handle the massive collapsing force generated by the engine vacuum when your at 5000rpm and you completely release the throttle then it should have no problem handling mild boost, I would think. Without popoff valve is probably best for turbo, I think.

My only fear is programming, i can't program worth a crap.
No need to "program" (I assume you mean, like "C", or BASIC, etc??). Tuning is done via a nice Windows based interface.

do you think it's possible to get MS set up well enough to start the engine and break it in with out too much trouble
If you spent a fortune on rebuilding your engine, you might as well break it in with your working CIS. No need to drop the engine for conversion. I did it with the engine in place.

But I sure don't understand your comment "I did not design it and would be unethical for me to profit from selling the ECU".
The ECU was designed by Bruce Bowling and Al Grippo. They have released all the info to build it for free on the net for people wishing to add EFI to their cars. The spirit of Megasquirt is a low cost ECU for the DIYer. I have contacted them and they have OK'd me to sell the ECU as part of my kit with some condition. They understand that not everyone is capable of putting all the pieces together to do a conversion and a kit like what I propose will reach more car nuts.

Cheers,

Tony
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'78 911SC with BITZRACING EFI conversion kit
Old 12-13-2003, 03:44 PM
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Looks like there is interest in this kit, so I am going to go ahead and build 5 complete proto kits.

I am going to try and select the parts so they are easier to produce. My original conversion method is OK for a proto but is way too labor intensive for a production kit.

I'll keep people posted in this thread. It should happen quickly as my day job ends in a week and then I am full time on this project. Hopefully I won't get another job soon . This won't be a problem as the high tech market is really bad, especially here in Ottawa.

Stay tuned....
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Old 12-13-2003, 03:55 PM
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Tony, like I said in my previous post, if it was a complete kit around $1200, and all I had to do is bolt it in basically, I would buy. In fact, I would love to be a test mule.
Old 12-13-2003, 04:30 PM
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I may be interested, depending on if the cis system on my 3.0 works or not when I hook it back up.

I'd like to assemble as much as posible, but not the box.

Let me know if you need any instructions books done, or fab work, I have lots of contacts for machine work and such.
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Old 12-13-2003, 05:09 PM
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Cool

Will you be using some of the stock components such as the intake runners? etc.

Good luck,
David Duffield
Old 12-13-2003, 05:18 PM
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Good, i took a c++ class and failed miserably, i hate it. But windows stuff is easy. Technically, if your system is map, then you can use a BOV and vent to atmosphere.
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Old 12-13-2003, 06:48 PM
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A dark cloud is looming over all '73.5 to '83 911s. CIS RIP.

There is another market waiting for this kit when you've finished converting all the 911s. It is the '75 to '94 930s. If I had the time this would have been done before the engine went in the car.
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Old 12-13-2003, 07:29 PM
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Tony,

This is cool. I hope all goes well and it pans out, selfishly speaking! I'd love to dump this CIS!

Troy
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Old 12-14-2003, 02:26 PM
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Will you be using some of the stock components such as the intake runners?
Yes. Stock intake runners will be used. As for the airbox, I hacked up mine, but I am looking to see how this can be done without hacking the air box.

Actually maybe you folks can help out here. I know the distance between the injectors on a 1978 911SC are, but I have no data for other models. This info is needed for the design of the fuel rails.

On the 1978 911 SC 3.0l engine the distance (center-to-center) of the injectors is 118mm (4.646inches).

Can folks with other CIS years try and measure this?

Thanks,

Tony
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Old 12-14-2003, 03:41 PM
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Also I am considering supplying the kit with 30lb/hr injectors. Why so high? Well, I'm trying to be forward thinking. Once folks bolt this on the next step will be turbo.

Depending on what fomula you use six 30lb/hr injectors at standard regulator pressure would be good for 280Hp (0.55bsfc and 85% duty cycle operation). This should be good enough for some mild boost

If you start going too big on the injectors idle suffers cus injector pulse widths become very small at idle. I'm running 28lb/hr with no problems. I think the stock 3.2 carreras come with 21lb/hr? So at 30lb/hr we have 40% more potential than the carrera boyz. This will give the SC world domination plot the "boost" it needs

Cheers,

Tony
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Old 12-14-2003, 03:52 PM
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i want one of those...
 
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I am interersted also, but don't have the funds for a complete kit...though a good friend of mine is a machinist.
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Old 12-14-2003, 03:55 PM
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I have a 1980 Euro SC please keep me posted.
Thanks
Old 12-15-2003, 09:37 AM
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Count me in!

I probably would not be prepared to buy one within the next 18 months or so, but I think this type of product has more longevity than that. Heck, even Wayne says he tries to help guys market new product ideas..e.g. the nuts/bolts bin he has advertised on his site. If the price stays at under $1400.00 out the door as a turn key product, I don't think you'll be able to make them fast enough.

R/
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Old 12-15-2003, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tbitz
Also I am considering supplying the kit with 30lb/hr injectors. Why so high? Well, I'm trying to be forward thinking. Once folks bolt this on the next step will be turbo.

So what size for a stock 3.0?
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Old 12-15-2003, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jhelgesen
So what size for a stock 3.0?
What I'm saying is that I'd use 30lb/hr injectors on a stock 3.0l engine. The benefit is if you later decide to increase HP by turbo/supercharger you have room to do so.

Tony
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Old 12-15-2003, 11:11 AM
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Wideband can be had for less than $300 total now. The sensor that comes in the new Audi and VW's is less than $40. Check out www.wb02.com. No affiliation, although I did buy one of their units.


Be careful on oversizing the injectors too much. It will make tuning the idle very diffucult because of the minimum opening/closing time of the injectors.


Matt
Old 12-15-2003, 11:12 AM
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Another question for you folks interested in the kit.

An O2 sensor needs to be installed. How do people feel about having to drill a hole in the pipe just before the muffler? You'd also have to weld a nut on this pipe.

I think those that have SSI have the O2 nut already installed? The original pre-1975 headers (SSI like) made by Porsche don't have the O2 nut installed either and would require to do so.

I don't think this is a big deal. I drilled and welded mine (original pre-1975 headers) in the car. I think a muffler shop can do this.

Only one is required.

Tony
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Old 12-15-2003, 11:18 AM
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David Duffield (old_porsche) had a very good point,

Selling different types (levels) of kits relative to the specific consumer is the best way to capture the whole potential market. I know for myself I always look at how i can build something myself for cheaper costs. So selling a minimal kit with just the ECU, instructions, and a list of needed parts is probably a good idea. Just an idea...

Clint
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Old 12-15-2003, 11:20 AM
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Im also interested in this kit. Please keep me posted as well.
Thanks.
Old 12-15-2003, 12:04 PM
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