Where to find Harness guide bars?

wastintime · 12-15-2003, 12:35 PM

Hey everyone,
Well, I decided to make my own seat base so the racing seat can be intalled, but now I've run into another problem, there's no way to use three point seat belts with a racing seat in my car, there's just no room. So, I figured what the hell, I need to go to 5 pt harnesses sooner or later anyway, it makes sense to do it all at once. I'm having trouble finding any place that sells the harness guide bar though. I'm ordering the Harnesses from OG Racing and they only sell the Brey-Krause bars which are insanely expensive, and I don't have a Targa and I'm not mounting the harnesses to the bar itself, so I really only need a piece of metal there for a guide. Does anyone know a good supplier for CHEAP harness guides?

Thanks,
Andrew

EdT82SC · 12-15-2003, 12:42 PM

Weltmeister makes one too. It sells for about half of the the Brey-Krause bars go for. That said, in a roll-over situation using a 5-point harness with a harness bar is much more dangerous then using a 3-point seat belt. Look into getting a roll-bar instead of a harness bar.

BGCarrera32 · 12-15-2003, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EdT82SC
That said, in a roll-over situation using a 5-point harness with a harness bar is much more dangerous then using a 3-point seat belt. Look into getting a roll-bar instead of a harness bar.

I disagree, with that logic its clearly better to flop all over the inside of the car with a factory seat and 3 point harness in a rollover...? The roll bar is best but the harness bar is still better than a 3 point belt setup as the roof of a 911 is pretty darn strong. A bucket with a 5 point and harness bar is also arguably better in a side impact than a factory seat with a 3 point.

-BG

porcupine911 · porcupine911's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by BGCarrera32
I disagree, with that logic its clearly better to flop all over the inside of the car with a factory seat and 3 point harness in a rollover

The danger lies in the harness holding your head and body upright, with no cage to hold the roof up in a serious rollover. This is a real, not perceived, threat that has caused serious injuries.

EdT82SC · 12-15-2003, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BGCarrera32
I disagree, with that logic its clearly better to flop all over the inside of the car with a factory seat and 3 point harness in a rollover...? The roll bar is best but the harness bar is still better than a 3 point belt setup as the roof of a 911 is pretty darn strong. A bucket with a 5 point and harness bar is also arguably better in a side impact than a factory seat with a 3 point.

-BG

It all depends if you are more worried about having your head busted open by the crumpling roof of your car, or breaking a few bones when you fly around because you aren't held in place by the 3-point harness. A 5-point harness holds you and your head in place in a roll-over, and doesn't let your body "fall" up towards the floor of the car if your roof caves in. With a three point harness you don't have a belt between your legs preventing you from moving up, and away from the crumpling roof of your car.

And besides, I didn't say don't get a 5-point harness. I said get a roll-bar (or a cage would be even better) instead.

HarryD · 12-15-2003, 02:49 PM

You need a do a bit of research on what you need safety gear wise. check here and at Rennlist (www.rennlist.com) for lots of opinoins/guidance. I have reviewed all the talk and made my decision but you have to do that for yourself.

Anyway, to answer your question, check out Stable Energies bars.

wastintime · 12-15-2003, 03:29 PM

I think I have heard some good things about stable energies... I think my boss has one in his car.

As far as deciding what safety things are right for me... yeah, I just don't know... I can't use a 3pt belt with the new seat in my car and have it be safe (it will only attach to the seat itself) so I really don't have a choice in the matter, I really need to go to 5 pt harnesses. If the car flips and does enough damage to kill me in a 5pt harness, I probably wouldn't want to live through the roll anyway, if for no other reason than not wanting to see my car destroyed... you only live twice anyway right?
Most people I've talked to think this is safe, and I'm not quite ready to make the car into a full racecar with a rollcage, so I think this is a good compromise, and hopefully I won't end up regretting that statement. I do appreciate the input though, safety is a big concern, and I'm not trying to make light of it. I just know I'm not ready to install the roll cage, and I think the 5pt setup is a lot safer than the 3pt setup.

Pat S · 12-15-2003, 03:41 PM

I've considered switching to 5pt harness also but only because my stock belts don't hold me in the seat very well and I'm guessing they are 30 years old so I don't really trust them.

But my interior is in very good condition overall so I don't want to go cutting it all apart for the harness bar and mounting points.

Is there a good solution to this that uses factory mounts and provides a clean install with few mods? Also is there a harness that works with factory style seats? They are in great shape and I'd like to keep them in there.

Pat

Jack Olsen · 12-15-2003, 03:44 PM

I've got a used harness bar for a coupe that I'll sell pretty cheap. Email me at jackolsen@comcast.net if you're ineterested.

porcupine911 · porcupine911's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Pat S
Is there a good solution to this that uses factory mounts and provides a clean install with few mods? Also is there a harness that works with factory style seats? They are in great shape and I'd like to keep them in there.

Pat

Several years ago, I had a custom harness bar installed in my car (not a 911) by speedware motorsports in redmond, wa. it was a clean, unobtrusive installation. i know at that time they were doing many 911 installations also.

HarryD · 12-15-2003, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pat S
I've considered switching to 5pt harness also but only because my stock belts don't hold me in the seat very well and I'm guessing they are 30 years old so I don't really trust them.

But my interior is in very good condition overall so I don't want to go cutting it all apart for the harness bar and mounting points.

Is there a good solution to this that uses factory mounts and provides a clean install with few mods? Also is there a harness that works with factory style seats? They are in great shape and I'd like to keep them in there.

Pat

Pat,

For Autocross, I am using a Stroth Rallye 4 Harness and a Stable Energies Harness Bar. They both can coexist with my existing car as they need no new holes. The harness uses the front and reat lap belt points and the harness bar uses the upper connection point of the shoulder strap.

Here a lousy shot of the setup:

With the harness bar installed, I lose the use of my rear seats to transport my kids, but my three points are still usable.

Pat S · 12-16-2003, 04:39 AM

Thanks HarryD, that looks good. Does it keep you from moving laterally (from side to side) though in the stock seats? Most Harness bars seem to have tabs where the belts feed to help keep them in place. But it looks like the Stable Energies bar is smooth and that, combined with the seat, makes me wonder if it really does restrict your side to side movement?

Thanks also to wastintime for letting me partially hijack the thread.

IROC · IROC's Garage

FWIW, I am using stock factory seat belts in my car with Sparco Evo2 seats without any problems.

Just to add some fuel to the fire...

Mike

HarryD · 12-16-2003, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pat S
Thanks HarryD, that looks good. Does it keep you from moving laterally (from side to side) though in the stock seats? Most Harness bars seem to have tabs where the belts feed to help keep them in place. But it looks like the Stable Energies bar is smooth and that, combined with the seat, makes me wonder if it really does restrict your side to side movement?

Thanks also to wastintime for letting me partially hijack the thread.

I do not seem to have too much side to side movement. It is a vast improvement over the 3 point setup since I no longer use my steering wheel and left foot to hold myself in my seat during an AutoX run.

wastintime · 12-16-2003, 06:14 AM

Harry,
Not a problem, I'm just happy I got the name of Stable Energies, they're pretty cheap and they're what I'm looking for. btw, I agree, I've ridden in cars with smoooth harness bars and you don't move in the seat as long as your belts are tightened

HarryD · 12-16-2003, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wastintime
Harry,
Not a problem, I'm just happy I got the name of Stable Energies, they're pretty cheap and they're what I'm looking for. btw, I agree, I've ridden in cars with smoooth harness bars and you don't move in the seat as long as your belts are tightened

The only thing I do not like about the Stable Energies Bar is the need to keep taking the bolt on the B pillar in and out every time I install or remove the bar. One day I feel like i'l strip it or something

BGCarrera32 · 12-16-2003, 07:14 AM

FWIW, another little nifty trick I used with a lot of success in Auto-X is this $2 Graco baby seat buckle thingie that locks the belts together at the clip (sort of looks like an "H" and is made of steel), and keeps the lap belt from loosening. It keeps you plated in your seat really well. Might be a cheapie thing to think about until you drop the dough on some equipment.

-BG

HarryD · 12-16-2003, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BGCarrera32
FWIW, another little nifty trick I used with a lot of success in Auto-X is this $2 Graco baby seat buckle thingie that locks the belts together at the clip (sort of looks like an "H" and is made of steel), and keeps the lap belt from loosening. It keeps you plated in your seat really well. Might be a cheapie thing to think about until you drop the dough on some equipment.

-BG

BTDT. I would also move the seat up a notch or two after locking the belt to get a bit of extra snug.

It works but not quite as secure feeling as my harness.