lowering the front end
 

ok i have done the (10 mm bolt that you tern lowering of the front end) and i think it needs more!!!!! what can i do? is there a kit to do this?
corey

Are you saying you have backed out the lowering bolt to the max? The next step would be to remove the rubber bumps, but then your suspension would just suck. What is the measurement from the floor to the high point of the fender well? What is the measurement in the rear? Did you drive it after making the adjustment? Also, you'll most likely need to corner balance and align after dropping it that much.

the front is at 25.5 and the back is at 26. i have drove it for about 1 year and it ias been align. what do you mean by corner balance

Need more info. Just blindly lowering the front makes no sense. Do you plan to install the bump-steer kit? The more you lower, the more negative the camber gets. What camber angle do you want? What height are you aiming for? What are the measurments from the floor to the inner fender lip? Front? Rear?:confused:O.K. That should be reversed: The rear is set half an inch lower than the front to give you a one degree nose down attitude. You want 24.5 rear and 25 front. Anytime you change the height, the camber and toe changes and a re-alignment is necessary. First decide on the proper height, get that set, then do an alignment. Height, Alignment and corner balancing go together. Check the tech articles on this board so you know what you are doing. SmileWavy

yes i do what a bump-steer kit in. as for height as low as i can go and still have it on the street.

I guess the ultimate question here is... why so low? To low gets a bit ricey if only used for streeting.:mad:

Your front and rear measurements are already out of whack. Your front inner lip should be around 1/2" HIGHER than the back to maintain proper weight distribution. This is where corner balancing comes in. Corner balancing is getting all of the corners set equally in weight, with you in the car. This also gets the fore/aft balance correct. If your front heavy, your car will plow and eat front brakes. A race car is one thing, but a street car is another matter. You have to balance "cool" and practical/reasonable...

so what is the back of you car set at? and front at?

Wow. Corey, you'll need to read more about the suspension issues before you continue. Search the articles on this board. Good luck.

I'm running 26 left front, 25.25 left rear. (unloaded)

25.75 right front 25.5-.75ish rear. (unloaded)

Keep in mind, my car is balanced at these heights. These are not the exact measurements just what I recall. These were set with 1/2 tank of gas and my 210lb butt in the seat.

I agree with Dr. Gunter... You need to do some 911 basic suspension study before you create a nightmare.

ok i know i need to do the balanced and i will but what i am asking is how do i get down to 24 in the front i am at 25. when i get down to 24 then i will lower the back to23.5. i do not know how we got so far off track.thanx
corey

Maybe the car needs to go over a speed hump to get it to settle into the new settings you've made.

Corey,

We are not off track here. Why do you want the car so low? You risk tearing off your muffler on just about every driveway, not to mention smacking your front end up. I'm fairly certain to go that low you need to do serious suspension mods, like offset spindles etc. I might be wrong on this. You may also have too much preload in your sway arms holding the car "up" if you will. You need to disconnect them to unload them, set up the height and do all the rest... You into it pretty good at this point...

i do not think it looks good so high. you are right about the rick of tearing off stuff and it is a good point. i need some pics of some low car.

corey,

i am in the middle of this - i just did the rear. however, i am aiming for 24/24.5, which should not present any problems.

if you cannot go lower at the front, it sounds like you need to reindex the t/bars?

look here

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122860&highlight=reinde x

Corey:
It sounds like you're "not listening" .....but you really do need to look at the archived details of what's been said before. Simply slamming a car down is not the right way to go..and starts messing up things like steering and suspension geometry. You really need to understand the effects of "revised camber curves" ...roll-centers, "bump-steer effects" and such. Certainly you can choose to ignore the negative impacts of these things...but it would be in your best interest to first understand what they are before you dismisss them.
Recognize that the "short form" way of setting up any ride height, for narrow bodied cars..is to come up with a fender-height-to-ground measurement that is 1/2" higher for the front than it is for the rear. Doesn't mean front is higher...it just recognizes that the fender is shaped differently to require such numbers. At such a ride height, the car will have a slightly nose-down attitude of about 1 degree..barely perceptable.
If you've gone as far as you can go, the adjuster for the front is now at the end of its range. You need to remove the adjuster, re-index the bar...and re-insert the adjustger and go further. Easy to say...harder to do.
--Wil Ferch

While my car was up on the hoist the other day, we did a 2-turn adjustment from the stock setting and that seems to have dropped it some, but not to the point where I need to have the car realigned. I'll take the rear down and some more in front this coming summer when I have the car realigned.

click my sig below, 23.75" rear, 24.25" front. not so bad to drive if you have a stock valance.

rjp

randy,

looks great that low, what shocks are you using?

what camber?

cheers.

One full turn of the front adjuster changes height by about 1/4"

--Wil Ferch

randy, i love that look now what did you do to get the front down like that????
thanx

corey,

you reading the replies here or what ?;)

the answer lies in the previous posts - you need to remove the adjuster and reindex the bars!!!

what is that i am reading right now. thanx for sending that

ney problem. the info is all there and its pretty easy.

good luck.

have you done this before? i want mine to get as low at randys. that is a good look

i'm in the middle of doin it.

done the rear already - its at 23.5". now i got to do the front which is much easier.

you really should search the archives and read up on it though - the rear is more involved than the front.

heres my progress http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/136886-progress-t-bars-bushes-install.html

i think i will go and get the 101 book it sounds like it have a lot in it.
do i need to jack the car up when i reindex the car?

the book will be a good investment.

yes, you will need to jack the car.

cheers.

thanx a lot you have help me out and not ask me why i want to low it.
corey

Corey...

Hold up son... If your asking if you need to jack up the car to re-index the torsion bars, your in WAY over your head here. What your getting into is much more complicated that simply turning a nut or two. Your basically removing your suspension and rebuilding it. If you don't know what your doing you could make your car dangerous to drive. At LEAST get some research done. Preferrably, bone up and pay someone to help you and learn.

I'm all for DIY but you have to have some BASIC knowledge at least for a project like this. This is definately NOT a one wrench project.

it is not like i was going to read this and run out and start doing it now.have i was going to go get the book.

Paid the pros @ Tru Line Seattle. :)

But seriously, it's the adjustments in the eccentrics in the rear, and as stated above, the adjustments in front.

Note: only the RR wheel needed actual reindexing on my car. Everything else was done with eccentrics. Strictly adjustments with bolts in the other wheels.

If you're gonna try this yourself, lift the nose and hang the wheels, then unwind the left and right the EXACT SAME AMOUNT. One turn at a time. Rears, you might want to pay a pro, it's not that simple to get the adjustment right in the rear.

You will wind up screwing up the corner balancing of your car, which as noted before will make the car do weird things, like lock the wheels up early, goofy alignment, etc.

Expect to spend the money on a corner balance and alignment if you decide to drop it yourself. Think of your car like a barstool, if one leg is too short it'll wobble. Screw it up and they may charge you to fix it - which will be more than having them do the whole thing by itself.

Total cost of operation to take my car down was $585.00 inc. installation of my own rack spacers. Walk in, drop the keys off, go have lunch, take a nap come back and write a check...

If you have the cash you might as well do it that way since you're not saving much adjusting the height yourself, that was actually the lesser part of the labor.

EDIT: if you're determined to DIY: ADJUST THE ECCENTRICS FIRST BEFORE YOU START YANKING BARS! BE CERTAIN YOU CAN'T ADJUST LOWER BEFORE YOU DECIDE TO UNBOLT THINGS!

(might also roll your front fenders now, while you have a chance too. Just fair warning)

Just my $.02

rjp

thanx i will think about it. and do some more reading on it.
corey

Hey man, how you doin?

I have the HD / Sport combo courtesy of JWW.


Alignment specs are as follows -

Front

camber L -.8 R-.65 deg
caster L 6.46 R 6.64 deg
Toe L 2.7mm R 2.7mm

Rear

camber L -1.62 R-1.5 deg
Toe L 1.7 mm R 1.7mm

Car drives beautifully, tracks well and tire wear is good. 22K so far on these settings, not a single problem. Probably time for a freshening though...

One last thing-

Remember to remove the big spacer on the top of the front struts if your car has been untouched! failure to will cost you a new pair of struts in no time flat!

rjp

randy you have been so much help on this. i hope i can email you more Q,s as i have them.
thanx corey

Anytime. Good luck, it's not as bad or confusing as it seems. Be patient though, one adjustment at a time..

I only paid since it's complex and I'm now too old and fat to be wrestling cars.

rjp

(19 cars over 16 years, 13 of them LOWERED -);)

randy,

sorry went off for some zzzzz. rude of me i know.

thanks for that. i was worried about bottoming the shocks so low, but i have the same as you so should be ok.

you managed to get all the negative camber dialed out as well - my rears are showing TONS at the mo, haven't checked the alignment yet.

corey,

i may have a go at dropping the front this weekend so i will post pics. should make it clearer for you.

but you may need an alignment when you are done.

corey-

remember to shorten yer bumpstops up front too. Makes the nose "poppy" if you dont.

Happy Holidays everybody.

rjp

Randy did you have Byron and his staff lower your car? Have you heard of the guys over at G2 by Interbay or Omni in Kirkland?
I was going to take my car to G2 this spring for a lowering, alignment and corner balance.

Yes, Byron took my $$$ and Doug did the work. Found them through JWW and 100% satisfied. They'll get all my biz. At the time I last went it was a 3 week wait to get in there.

Heard good things about the other shops too. Guess it's just a matter of convienence.