Any Motronic Experts out there?

[Hugh R]

I have a ROW 84. It was emissions controlled in the U.S. I was reading on Steve Wong's website that some ROW cars had a 207 hp Motronic DME versus a 231 hp. Anyone know which one is that has the Motronic part no. 0261 200 050? Also, Steve says on his website that even if you have a 207 hp Motronic DME on your ROW his chip may be able to bring it back to 231 hp. Any thoughts on this? Thanks very much in advance.

[Tim Polzin]

This might help. I have more numbers at the office if yours is not there.

84-89 DME Chart

Tim

[RSupdate]

930/20 '84-86 3.2 911 RoW 10.3:1 231 HP@5900RPM 209 FT LBS@4800RPM

930/21 '84-86 3.2 911 USA 9.5:1 207 HP@5900 RPM 192FT LBS@4800 RPM

930/25 '87-89 3.2 911 USA 9.5:1 217 HP@5900 RPM 195 FT LBS@4800 RPM

930/26 '87-89 3.2 911 RoW 10.3:1 231 HP@5900RPM 209 FT LBS@4800RPM

From Page 111 Bruce Anderson/Performance Handbook

It appears that the RoW 3.2 was blessed with not only a hotter chip ( I think) but a tad more compression which certianly added punch accross the rpm range

I've got an '84 3.2 in my '73....I wonder how Steve's chips stack up to Autothority? As that's what I've got w. SSi's + Borla sport muff

Would love to "A vs. B" them together.

[kepperly]

Guys, just give in on this one! call Wong and pay the price for his chip it isthe best!!
keith epperly ex authority chip user

[Hugh R]

My car was redone with the O2 sensor, cat and a DME of some kind in California. It appears that I have the US DME, not the ROW. which may mean that although I have the 10.5:1 compression ratio, I may only be getting 207 hp, not the 231 hp. Steve W says he can correct that with his chip. If true (I don't know either way at this point) getting about 23 more hp for the price of the chip seems like a pretty cost effective upgrade. I'll probably get it in the next month or so when I can drive over the the West side of LA where Steve is located.

[Lorenfb]

Hugh R:

Dream-on about the HP gain. Selling performance chips is like selling
"snake oil" remedies; There's always someone you can suck in with
wild claims.

If it were that easy to get that much HP, Porsche/Andial (Porsche
Racing) would have done it. Check out the data provided by other
performance chip suppliers; Autothority, Dinan (Weltmeister chip
at Performance Products), Hypertech. There're all on the internet.

Check out the Rennlist website on the 911 forum for more discussion
on performance chips. Beware of what you put in yours cars!

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

[Hugh R]

Loren

But if my car is an ROW and they stuck a US 207 hp DME in it doesn't it make sense that I would be able to reclaim the hp that was originally in the car and lost when it was US emissions controlled?

[toolman]

Don't listen to Loren, he has a bad attitude. Steve's chips rule!

[BGCarrera32]

Originally posted by Hugh R
But if my car is an ROW and they stuck a US 207 hp DME in it doesn't it make sense that I would be able to reclaim the hp that was originally in the car and lost when it was US emissions controlled?

Provided the rest of the engine is taken back to ROW spec (i.e. ditch the cat) it is conceivable there are gains to be made with the ROW map...but...keep in mind that these hp numbers are top end, not something you'd probably tend to feel in normal driving. For that, reworking part throttle maps makes the most sense, and that is where Steve Wong has done the legwork.

Buy a chip from Steve for your configuration. If you don't like it and your dyno numbers don't improve, he'd probably refund your money from what I hear (I can't speak for him of course). I doubt it will blow your engine up...

-BG

[greglepore]

Sounds right, as its common thought that Euro premuffler and chip are good for 15+ hp, so if you did that you'd be in the 220's. So, it would make sense that ditching the Cat and using a non-US spec chip would get you to 220, the added compression would get you the rest of the way there. So you're initial question makes sense, if you change out the cat.

[Lorenfb]

This is a forum that should not involve personal attacks. When one
can't defend against challenges, then the typical response as has
been the case, is a personal attack. I've challenged the chip and not
attacked anyone, so what are all these attacks about?

Bottomline:

Performance chip suppliers need to do a CLEAN evaluation of their
chip versus "cluttered" dyno runs with many mods. If the chips are
that great, then spend the money and end the debate with good dyno
runs.

Methodology:

1. A stock 3.2 is run on a dyno with the torque (KEY - HP is just a product
number from torque.) measured over the rpm range; i.e. no special
muffler/bypass, no special exhausts, no special air filter, no removal
of the O2 sensor, no DME switch changes, and a stock chip. Measure
the CO and HC at idle and 3000 rpm.
2. Remove the stock DME chip and replace it with the perfomance chip wihout
any changes and rerun the dyno tests. Measure the CO and HC at idle
and at 3000 rpm.

How much more simple can that be? Please, no tests in German or torque
numbers in Newton-Meters, and no illegible graphs need be posted here as
on some websites.

Let's be a little more professional when using a public forum!
Can the challenge be met or do we get more personal attacks?


Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

[kepperly]

Stve, don't sweat their comments we still like your work,

keith

[anh911]

Hugh, did you ever get a straight answer on the DME part numbers?
MAybe you could find someone local to you with the euro part and compare numbers or even swap'em out to test. I have a unit from a euro car but it would be a month or more before I can get to it.

[North Coast Cab]

Hugh,
I have a US '84 and just happen to have the DME sitting on my desk waiting for the Steve W chip. My part number is "0261200050. Steve had me look at a few jumpers inside to verify which version I had before he burned the chip.

Also, for what it's worth, between his site and Bruce Anderson's book there is plenty of info to substantiate HP gains through DME chip motification. I'm in the process of replacing the cat with a Fabspeed Euro PreMuffler, adding a 2 out muffler and Steve's chip. I'm hoping for 20HP. If you review the dyno curves you'll see significant gains throught the power band so you'd still feel it even if not running at red line.

John

[Venetian]

Lorenfb,

This has been an on going debate for a long time. Personally I do not have enough knowledge to side one way or the other. It seems to me that it would be worth your while to order a SW chip and do some dyno testing on your 3.2 exactly as you would like then post the results for better or for worse(depending on viewpoint).

I realize that this would cost you some money but it seems that with the strong feelings you have it would be well worth it! It also appears that these results would be the only ones you would accept.

[Lorenfb]

It is the suppliers' duty and responsibility to their customers to provide
as much information as possible, e.g. CLEAN dyno runs, about products
they market. The dyno and other data analysis costs should assumed
by the suppliers and NOT their customers. This is a standard business
practice all upstanding suppliers operate under, especially when unproven
cliams are made about products and marketed to the public.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

[84toy]

I want to see dyno results and oscilliscope tests and readings on DME units that have been rebuilt by Loren with comparisons to new DME units. It is his duty as an electronics firm to provide it. Skip word of mouth that his DME's may or may not work because that does not mean anything. Geez, get a life.....Loren, I think you have made your point numerous times.

[Lorenfb]

My above post was in response to Venetian's post. You (84toy), as many,
must not like the challenges to wild claims and join the general "love fest"
about chips. Remember, not all of us are naive to marketing hyperbole.

With regard to my web site, I make no claims nor solicit business on this
forum as some do. Furthermore, the web site is there as a helpful tool.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2, '04 BMW Boxer Cup, '01 Ducati 996

[movin]

I thought the only difference in DME's is in the chip, regardless of the part numbers or code numbers or destination country or state.

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by movin
I thought the only difference in DME's is in the chip, regardless of the part numbers or code numbers or destination country or state.

That's pretty much correct AFIK. The DME's were functionally the same except for the contents of the chip.
In the interest of completeness, there were different "size" chips (2K, 4K, 8K Eproms) and the DME for countries with poor fuel had the fuel quality switch set to a different position.
-Chris