What is this engine?

FenderGuy · 02-05-2004, 08:48 PM

kepperly · kepperly's Garage

76-77 turbo, non intercooled.

keith

FenderGuy · 02-06-2004, 07:13 AM

any information on this engine? how do the non intercooled compare to the intercooled turbos? and what do you think of this engine? hassle or ok?

Superman · 02-06-2004, 07:35 AM

That engine can be characterized as a "slippery slope" engine. Others can elaborate. A perfect illustration is our beloved Juan Ruiz. The engine in the pic probably makes 250-300 hp. But the first thing you'll discover is that, if you add an intercooler then hp can be improved to 325-350 or so. Then you'll think the engine is tired and needs new P&Cs and valves, and you'll consider upgrading to better parts. While you're in there, you'll be advised that, for longevity under extreme conditions you really should install Carillo rods, Raceware hardware, yadda yadda. Twenty-five thousand dollars later you'll have 500 hp and you'll call an exotic engine builder for advice on how to get 600 hp.

Bravo · Bravo's Garage

Great answer Superman! totally true! LOL

FenderGuy · 02-06-2004, 08:12 AM

"slippery slope" engine? so i take it for HP junkies it wouldnt be enough?

Superman · 02-06-2004, 08:19 AM

To an alcoholic, a thimblefull is too much, and an ocean is not enough. Our beloved Juan Ruiz is past 600 hp, and now we believe he is comfortably past 700 hp. Is he finished thinking about how to get more ponies?

Nope, he's not.

Kemo · 02-06-2004, 08:32 AM

Super...dont forget about AMAC...hes got some HP floating around up there too...

kepperly · kepperly's Garage

For those of you that have Bruce Andersons book and have looked through it alot and wondered Who Tom Hanna was in referance to 911s. He built an Andial engined 77 turbo similar
to the engine above. He then installed a transmisson oil cooler,
pictures of this can be seen in Bruces book. He was producing so much horsepower he started breaking or damaging half
shafts. So he installed 935 half shafts out of titanium. Too
much wheel hop! Couldn't hook up in the 1/4. The car is now in the corner of his shop with 848 miles on it. Right here in Wichita, Kansas.

Keith Epperly 87 slant nose turbo look carrera cabriolet

FenderGuy · 02-06-2004, 08:50 AM

The question i am asking is this engine good?

RickM · RickM's Garage

Fender,
I'm guessing you want to know if it's a reliable motor out of the box or with a few updates...ala tensioners, pop off valves or valve guide type stuff. Right?

Did you get Compression #s, leakdown % etc etc? How many miles on it?

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

I presume you're not asking for remote diagnosis...

This engine is good, but very 'old school.' HP is nothing until about 4500 RPM, then it really accelerates nicely. If you like driving a car that takes a bit of contemplation in approaching an apex correctly, this is a fun setup.

Otherwise the turbo lag will just make you nuts.

FenderGuy · 02-06-2004, 09:22 AM

Rick M & techweenie, thanks for the replies. Yup just trying to get info on the motor, its in a car that i maybe interested in. Never seen this type of turbo porsche, so just wondering what its about. If i do plan to buy it, what should i tell the pre purchase inspection shop to look for, or is it the typical porsche pre prechase , studs, carrera fed tensioners, turbo vavle covers?, compression test ????

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

These engines sometimes break head studs.

OTOH, if you have to tell your shop what to look for in a PPI, you need another shop.

Superman · 02-06-2004, 09:31 AM

I didn't mean to sidetrack your thread, FenderGuy. I don't know much about that particular engine. I do know that the non-intercooled Turbo engines suffered because of the lack of intercooler. So their owners tend to install the IC, which is a little spendy, and this places them on that slippery slope I mentioned. For a much more meaningful assessment of the specific problems to look out for, I would get input from JW.

Wayne 962 · Wayne 962's Garage

You're not asking the right questions - that's why you're not getting the answers you want. The first question should be "should I buy a Turbo or a NA car?"

-Wayne

FenderGuy · 02-06-2004, 02:24 PM

whos JW?

FenderGuy · 02-06-2004, 02:24 PM

should I buy a Turbo or a NA car?"

BURN-BROS · 02-06-2004, 02:56 PM

FenderGuy, what do you want out of your car? Early turbos are desirable for what they are and they were 30,000.00 new in 76 . Prices are stable and they do not depreciate(very little if any). But tell what you want from your next purchase.

cowtown · 02-06-2004, 03:41 PM

Fenderguy, I have that engine (a 77) in a '75 car. I agree with everything Superman and others said - it is indeed a slippery slope engine. It is quite laggy. It has 24 Dilivar head studs, which will probably need attention. It should get the oil bypass spring updates, and Carrera tensioners. If it has the original thermal reactor exhaust, you are looking at buying a new header system, and maybe new valve guides. I've done a teardown , and now I'm shopping for an intercooler....

Having said that, it's a ton of fun to drive if it's installed in a lightweight car. The power is there, it's just not smooth and torquey like a 3.6.

Maybe not the best engine for a daily driver, though. Great as a tinkerer's second (or third) car.