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MuffinMan 02-07-2004 12:19 PM

3.6 vram install & 915 rebuild progress report
It looks like I'm one of many in the crowd performing a 3.6 conversion right now, but I thought I'd share my project with the group. I'm replacing the stock 2.7 in my 1977 911S with a 1997 3.6 Vram. I went with a US OBDII engine with the drive block disabled and mapping updated by Steve Weiner at Rennsport Systems. During the conversion, I'm also replacing both rear wheel bearings, the CV joints & half shafts, a million other little things, rebuilding the 915, and adding a GT LSD. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to enlighten you on the decisions I made, and why I made them. Here we go:
Original 2.7 in the car
This is the engine bay with the 2.7 removed. The sound pad was disintegrating, so I either had to sand & repaint or replace the pad
I decided to sand & paint
I'm also having the transmission completely rebuilt, and a GT LSD added. This is a picture of the transmission installed in the car before the project
This is the case completely cleaned and painted. I think I lost 10lbs just by removing the sludge ;)
Here's the old 2.7 out of the car. It dyno'd at 115 rwhp on a Dynapack dyno last week.
Another view of the 2.7
A final view of the 2.7

more to follow in an additional post

MuffinMan 02-07-2004 12:41 PM

I purchased my engine from LA Porsche. They gave me a 6 month warranty, and have been excellent at sending out the few pieces that were either missing or broken when the engine arrived. Here are more pics of the project:
1997 3.6 Varioram upon arrival

I did quite a bit of research and archive searches on exhaust solutions for the 3.6 conversions. It seems as though most have gone with B&B headers and the Fabspeed/Flowmaster muffler. Others have used the excellently flowing factory 993 heat exchangers and adapted some type of custom muffler, or have used the factory catalytic converters with tips welded to the ends. My shop has been fabbing a nice system with mandrel bent pipes and Spintech mufflers, but I chose to go the same route as EMBS with the Triad muffler. I spoke to Dave at Triad, and I essentially have the second muffler he's made for this application. It bolts to the factory heat exchangers, and has provisions for the O2 sensors. I will have 2 O2 sensors, so I asked him to leave the bungs off so my shop can place them appropriately without interference.

I will have my car dyno'd again on the Dynapack dynamometer once everything is installed. Unfortunately, this won't be a very good a/b comparison for exhausts since my car will have computer mapping by Steve Weiner instead of the Steve Timmins'-popularized euro OBDI setup with Cyntex chips. Nevertheless, we should be able to tell if the Triad muffler greatly hinders power. Below is a picture of my Triad muffler, just before shipment.
The white X's are where he wanted to put the O2 sensors (I need 2 since I'm running US OBDII), and the white boxes are close to the factory locations.

MuffinMan 02-07-2004 12:42 PM

I visited my shop this weekend, and took some pictures of the work in progress. They are as follows:
3.6 Vram engine being prepared for installation

That is the current state of affairs. It will probably be done in another couple of weeks, as the tranny needs to be re-assembled and the rest of the project sorted. My shop has never installed the 964-based RS heat tube being reproduced by Thom Fitzpatrick, but I'll post pics with their modifications. If anyone has pics of the area where the bottom of the tube meets up with the factory "heat pipe" (sorry, I can't remember the actual name right now), I'd appreciate seeing how you overcame this issue. I'll keep you posted!

surflvr911sc 02-07-2004 12:50 PM

Looking great! You are having a lot of the same “while your in there’s” done as I did; tranny, bearings, CVs, etc. Clean exhaust setup, I think that’s the way I would go if I had a 993 engine. Good Luck!

Bill Verburg 02-07-2004 12:51 PM

Great job!!

Show them some better pictures of your brakes;)

surflvr911sc 02-07-2004 12:53 PM

Invisible rotors? Or did you go a little crazy drilling holes? I bet those stay cool!

MuffinMan 02-07-2004 12:58 PM


Originally posted by Bill Verburg
Great job!!

Show them some better pictures of your brakes;)

Ha! Yes, there are no rear rotors due to the in-progress replacement of the rear wheel bearings. I'll find some pics of my 993TT brake upgrade and post them here, as it was a fun project. Here's a picture of the car with all of the parts attached:

Bill Verburg 02-07-2004 01:03 PM

How could anyone even think about a 964 or 993 when they could have something like that.

Did you manage to ditch the SAI?

MuffinMan 02-07-2004 01:05 PM

This is part of a thread from my 993TT brake upgrade over the summer:

I spent about 3 hours in the garage installing the right rear brake. The first thing I did was weigh the new brakes. I weighed the caliper, the caliper and pads, and the caliper, pads & rotor together. I used a digital scale that rounds to the nearest .5lb. My results for the 993TT rear brakes:

Caliper: 8.0 lbs
Caliper & pads: 10.5 lbs
Caliper, pads, and rotor: 30.0 lbs

Stock 1977 911S M caliper, pads, & rotor: 20.5 lbs
(btw, the calipers were almost the same weight, the difference was almost entirely in the larger rotor/heat sink)
Big Red on the scale
Original brakes
Wheel removed
Look at that puny thing!
Old vs. new calipers
Old vs. new rotors
Rotor removed (it doesn't look that rusty irl)
New brake line installed

MuffinMan 02-07-2004 01:06 PM

More of the thread for rear brake:
Doh! The custom mounting tabs don't see to be fitting! I spent awhile figuring out whether the adaptor was installed correctly on the caliper, etc.
Eventually, I figured out that I needed THIS!
mmm...manly tools!
I had to remove the ears that are typically used to mount the dust shields. Who needs those things, let's lighten this baby up! What else can I cut off of my car to save weight :)
Partly cut off
Ears = Gone
That's better

MuffinMan 02-07-2004 01:07 PM

Last bit:
mmm...Big Reds
Okay, I'll admit that I was a little nervous when I was putting the wheel on. It barely clears, but it clears!
3 hours later, I'm all set! Only 3 more to go!

Embs 02-07-2004 01:08 PM


You have a very sharp car!!

I think you are the only guy on the board with an OBDII 3.6 transplant.

I have no idea what the Triad does from a power perspective, but I very much like how it sounds.

You'll have factory motorsound lid in about three days to cover that filter. You are smart for staying away from the oiled cone filters.

MuffinMan 02-07-2004 01:09 PM


Originally posted by Bill Verburg
How could anyone even think about a 964 or 993 when they could have something like that.

Did you manage to ditch the SAI?

I completely forgot to address the SAI issue due to the plehtora of details. I did ask Steve Weiner at one point, and he said it is a non-issue since I don't have a CEL. I will email my shop and report back on what they have to say.

Jack Olsen 02-07-2004 01:26 PM

That firewall looks great with the paint, but you might want to consider putting one of the Appbiz/Pelican sound pads in there before they put the motor in. The pad is less bulky and lighter than the factory pad, and makes a noticeable difference in interior sound and heat. If it's a street-driven car, especially, it's a great way to go. (And it's also a reflectorized silver, which adds light to the engine bay and makes everything look pretty cool.)

Awesome project, though. I'm jealous of your vram torque curve already.

Mike Feinstein 02-07-2004 02:29 PM


Originally posted by Embs
You are smart for staying away from the oiled cone filters.
Why? As long as you don't over oil them, I don't see the downside. Won't the factory motorsound airbox interfere with the hinge/lid shock?

}{arlequin 02-07-2004 04:48 PM

man oh man... i'm getting displacement envy... that thing will scoot!!!

Moses 02-07-2004 06:44 PM

That looks nasty. Very, very nasty.

Bill Verburg 02-08-2004 08:20 AM

Rob, I'm curious about the aeroquip in the back ground. Did you do something different or just replumb stock?

Embs 02-08-2004 09:23 AM


Originally posted by Mike Feinstein
Why? As long as you don't over oil them, I don't see the downside. Won't the factory motorsound airbox interfere with the hinge/lid shock?

Mike, I guess it is just personal preference. I had a cone at one time on my engine as well. I think the stock filters are way better than any aftermarket cone. IMO, a K&N filter ruined a Bultaco engine I had.

I have no interference with the airbox. It is however extremely tight.

Kevin Stewart 02-08-2004 10:29 AM

On the heat tube, sopme to you have to stick a 4x4 or ? in the hole and move it forward so tube will fit easy!!! they bend easy, looks great, Kevin

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