How not to remove a fender (lessons learned, and a question)

[djmcmath]

I'm in process of removing the fenders from my '86 Carrera for the purpose of rust-hunting. Here's my list of "Dan is smarter now than he was before" items:
1.The Bentley's says “may.” They mean “will.”
2.The Bentley's says there are 10 screws inside the trunk. If you only remove 8, you will find that the fender doesn't budge, no matter how hard you pull on it.
3.The Bentley's says that there are also 6 screws along the rear edge of the fender. See #2.
4.Beer is always a good thing, in moderation. It is best to attempt your first fender removal late on a Friday night after your room-mate has drunk himself into oblivion and you're bored.
5.Flexible oil lines aren't, especially if you ignore the line in the Bentley's where it says to unscrew the brackets.
6.Road gunk is nasty stuff.
7.Undercoating is pretty durable stuff.
8.Road gunk, undercoating, and years of mild corrosion make bolts inside wheel wells almost impossible to remove. If you're trying to round out the bolts, you'll have the best success by using the wrong size of socket. The correct size seems to be 10mm, so using an 11mm because the road gunk confused you is an excellent choice.
9.Do not be daunted by the undercoating. Scrape at it wantonly with a screwdriver – do not scrape carefully, because by this point you will be frustrated. You may or may not be more patient if you paid any attention to #4. If you are as fortunate as I was, you'll be able to add blood to the underside of your fender, in addition to the road gunk. If you paid as much attention as I did to #4, you may not feel the missing fingernail for a moment.


So now I'm at a standstill. I can't figure out how to get on the uppermost bolt from behind the oil lines inside the fenderwell. It's covered in that rubbery undercoating. Moreover, the rubbery undercoating is effectively bonding the fender to the frame, and I don't know how to separate them without damaging the fender. I hunted through the archives and couldn't find anything definitive. Has anybody ever found a solvent that works on that stuff? Any hints on getting to the bolt behind the oil lines?


TIA,

Dan

[steand]

In My experience, you need too remove the undercoating around all screws/bolts/nut's. Use a large screwdriver as scraper evt. a cup brush on the grinder (wear googles). You can use a putty knife to cut the undercoating along the seems, and lift it up from the bodywork.

It's dirty work.

If everything else fails. The undercoating is solvable in Petrol, i used it and a lot off rags to remove undercoating in the engine compartment off my previous 944, but that is REALLY Meassy.

[Eric Coffey]

If you are referring to the nuts closest to the door/windshield, those are a b**ch to remove ! Much easier to get to with an extension and U-joint socket IIRC. So, why the fender removal anyway?

[john walker's workshop]

the next problem will be that the fender is sealed to the body with a caulking strip. real tough and rubbery. you can actually ruin the fender if you don't approach this problem carefully. a stiff putty knife helps.

[djmcmath]

I'm pulling the fenders to look for rust. A recent thread showed horrifying pics of somebody else's (forgive me, I've forgotten who) '84 with the fenders removed, exposing rust along the entire joint. I suspect mine also has rust -- I live in the Seattle area, for crying out loud...

Stiff putty knife and a u-joint socket, eh? Looks like I'm on my way back down to the hardware store. I already have some petrol, in various forms. I don't mind a mess, really, it's a lot better than damaging myself (or worse my car!) by screwing up with a screwdriver.

Oh, BTW, what is the black cylinder inside the left front fender? It's about 11" long, 2" diameter, fixed to the fender with two hoseclamp-style brackets, connected into the rest of the car via a pair of rubber hoses. Fuel filter, maybe? I assume it's safe to remove it from the brackets and pull it out of the way so I can get at the bolts underneath right?

It's really encouraging to know I'm not the first to go through this nightmare. Thanks for all the help, I'll be back in a bit with a progress update...


Dan

[Eric Coffey]

black cylinder is the A/C receiver/dryer I believe. No prob with (gently) moving it out of the way. Or, you could simply choose to do the popular "A/C delete" while you're in there!

[svandamme]

Originally posted by Eric Coffey
If you are referring to the nuts closest to the door/windshield, those are a b**ch to remove ! Much easier to get to with an extension and U-joint socket IIRC. So, why the fender removal anyway?

flexible extension helps out a lot
and lot's of poking with a knife after you blow in there with a heat gun will help removing the stuff on the bolt, giving you a better grip

[Eric Coffey]

Originally posted by svandamme
flexible extension helps out a lot
and lot's of poking with a knife after you blow in there with a heat gun will help removing the stuff on the bolt, giving you a better grip

I never thought about using a heat gun, but sounds like a good idea! Just an FYI on the the flexible extensions though: The last one I used wasn't strong enough to hold the fastener. I like the positive feel of a U-joint and/or wobble extension rather than a flexible extension. YMMV.

[svandamme]

didn't work for me either, till i heated up the sjit and carved away the stuff on it..once the flex thing can properly seat on the nut... you don't need that much power.. the key is getting it to grip fully

[john70t]

Move slowly, have plenty of cushioning and light, and use only one finger to lift them off. You'll get there.

[Schrup]

I second the heavy duty cup brush attachment. I used one on my cordless to get most of the undercoating off around my rear swaybar mounts. I followed it up with the dremel to clean out the cracks & crevices. Might I also suggest a good pair of mechanics gloves, they will save your fingers. I use Ironclad & love them.

[ruf-porsche]

Originally posted by Schrup
I Might I also suggest a good pair of mechanics gloves, they will save your fingers. I use Ironclad & love them.

Mechanic gloves?

What are you guys a bunch of sissy?

Work on all my cars bare handed all the time. Have all the scrape knuckles and scars to prove it.

Just don't stick your hand in the carb cleaner if you have an open cut. Oh, you sissy have CIS or Motronic or EFI so you never mess with carb cleaner.

Mechanic gloves, somerthing the ricers would use to reprogram their rice burners.

[OldTee]

I'm not sure I would use a heat gun on the left side. The fuel fumes might take some exception to being anoyed by a heat filiment.

[djmcmath]

Thanks for the tips -- your wisdom works great! I've obtained a heat gun, and it sure does melt that stuff. Melts slowly, but it does melt it. Apply a little heat, then scrape with a putty knife, peel the cooling remnants off by hand, check to see if the bolt is exposed enough to get a grip on, repeat as necessary ...

My next headache is removing the bumper so I can get the little screws out of the rubber bumper cover. The Bentleys just says to (among some other more minor stuff) remove the securing nuts and pull it off, which isn't working at all. I've tried gently tapping it with a rubber mallet and pulling on the bumper as if I really wanted a hernia, to no avail. I was planning on applying a little force, but this is ridiculous. Any more help?

Thanks again, all.

Dan

[Schrup]

Originally posted by ruf-porsche
Mechanic gloves?
What are you guys a bunch of sissy?
Work on all my cars bare handed all the time. Have all the scrape knuckles and scars to prove it.
Mechanic gloves, somerthing the ricers would use to reprogram their rice burners.

Let's go on down to the dirt track then

[svandamme]

Originally posted by OldTee
I'm not sure I would use a heat gun on the left side. The fuel fumes might take some exception to being anoyed by a heat filiment.

fuel doesn't ignite by heat alone... not even when it's evaporated and get's heat gunned. besides , if you would have that much fumes... to make any combustable mixture in your working space you'de have a splitting headache after say 1 minute...

[911nut]

Originally posted by djmcmath
My next headache is removing the bumper so I can get the little screws out of the rubber bumper cover.
Dan

Dan, soak those little rascals in generous amounts of PB Blaster overnight and they'll back right out. If that doesn't work buy a pair of needle nose vice grips to grab them and get them started.

[djmcmath]

Originally posted by 911nut
Dan, soak those little rascals in generous amounts of PB Blaster overnight and they'll back right out. If that doesn't work buy a pair of needle nose vice grips to grab them and get them started.

No no -- the screws in the rubber bumper cover strip are easy. It's the bumper itself. I have to pull the bumper to get enough room to get access to those piddly little screws. I've pulled the nuts off the front, the ones that hold the bumper to the shocks, but no luck pulling it off. Are they additionally glued in place, or are mine perhaps just welded in by years of rust (ooh, worst case)? Should I just apply more force? Is there some magic fastener that I've missed that's holding these babies on?

TIA,
Dan

[peter915]

Dan,
I repaired both wings on my 85 coupe last year.
Found I had to replace metal along top of sub-frame.
See photo.
Wings are held on with self-tapper type screws (Porsche), screwed into "speed nuts"... I couldn't believe porsche would use these??????
I replaced all fastners with stainless steel socket screws - M8's.
Replaced all speed nuts with stainless blind nuts - excellent.
I can now remove a wing in around 35 minutes with basically one tool - a M8 allen key - I use a long extended type - T bar or ball joint.

[ruf-porsche]

Originally posted by djmcmath
No no -- the screws in the rubber bumper cover strip are easy. It's the bumper itself. I have to pull the bumper to get enough room to get access to those piddly little screws. I've pulled the nuts off the front, the ones that hold the bumper to the shocks, but no luck pulling it off. Are they additionally glued in place, or are mine perhaps just welded in by years of rust (ooh, worst case)? Should I just apply more force? Is there some magic fastener that I've missed that's holding these babies on?

TIA,
Dan

Look inside the trunk (or boot if you're across the pond). There are a couple of bolts that holds the front fascia panel.