Cornering, handling and the 911

[goliver]

Something must have been seriously wrong with my old M6. It would no WAY go past 150. If it was speed limited it was a waste as it would not do 155.


Cheers,

Geoff

[masraum]

OK, first, the 911 handles very well compared to most cars which, at least in the states, are not really designed to handle. At higher limits the 911 will handle very well with a driver that is experienced (and skilled) at driving a 911 (or car with its characteristics). For your average person there are lots and lots of cars that will handle better since they will be more forgiving and less inclinced to bite. The 944 for instance, with its weight distr and its high polar moment it's great for the average joe.

Regardless, I love driving my car. It's my daily driver, has been for nearly 3 years, and everyday is as exciting as the first (actually more since I am more comfortable in the car now).

Hmm, the M6 will out handle an M3, huh?? I suppose under some circumstances that is true, but that would generally ne for the same resons that a 996 outhandles an early 911, mostly because of years of technology in suspension, chassis, and tire. An otherwise similar M3 should beat an M6. Yes, the Cayenne does have very high limits due to massive amounts of technology being thrown at it. An M6 or Cayenne is much like a 911, essentailly a problem in design that was worked around. It's fact that lighter weight is better for all aspects of handling, so really heavy vehicles are at a disadvantage right from the start. Very similar to a car with most of the weight hung out back, fortunately those disadvantages can be tamed or conquered with enough brain power thrown at them.

[ben@benlovejoy.]

I would say that the 968 I had before has better handling than my 911 in the sense that it was perfectly balanced and neutral until you got very close indeed to the limit. The 911 is definitely more tail-happy.

But I am very, very happy with my choice. :-)

I think that's the common theme here. If you want perfect handling, there are better cars (probably AWD ones for the ultimate in 'do as they are told no matter what' cornering). If you want a car which is just a delight to drive, then the 911 delivers waaay more than the theoretical handling characteristics would suggest.

Ben

[Randy Webb]

I am trying to recal the car magazine that tested a 911 (993 or 996) and several exotic mid-engined cars a few years ago. the result was that the 911 did unusually well -- not just in braking, but also in acceleration "handling" issues, and in cornering. As I recall it was #1 in most areas.

[djmcmath]

Originally posted by Randy Webb
I am trying to recal the car magazine that tested a 911 (993 or 996) and several exotic mid-engined cars a few years ago. the result was that the 911 did unusually well -- not just in braking, but also in acceleration "handling" issues, and in cornering. As I recall it was #1 in most areas.

Actually, it seems like most of the comparisons I've read place the Porsche in the #2 or #3 slot, as far as the numbers go, but the drivers routinely pick it as the overal #1, and can't usually explain why. Or at leats that's what I seemed to find when I was researching the question "What car is the most fun to drive?" about a year ago.

Dan

[Randy Webb]

"visit my doctor for a stress test"

- Good advice.

I've never ridden with Jack (or anybody on this board, I think) but I recently got a ride with a DE instructor/GT-2 owner thru LA's twisty fun streets. I would add to the above that you should not eat a whole lot of sushi before doing this. (No, I did not deface his gem.)

[1982911sc]

Great thread!, my 325i (I know it is no M3..cut me some slack), is just so damn easy to drive fast with its 50/50 weight very responsive in both steering and acceleration. It can almost make a "great" driver out of a "good" driver. I have driven many sports cars in my day and I would have to say the 911 is one of the most intimadating. I really am nervous as times to really, really push it. I have had it sideways a few times and it has always come back to me but...wow. It really takes skill and concentration to drive one of these on the 'ragged edge'....thoughts!

[snowman]

Ok people, heres the scoop from the horses mouth, a direct copy of my BMW owners manuel.
For the numerically challanged, 255 kPh equates to 258 Mph top speed. Officially the highest ever for a production BMW. THats electronically limited. Remove the limit and it goes up considerably. And I have driven it at that speed, which it does quiet easily.




All these numbers are conservative. For example I have a time slip from Milan Dragway, just outside Detroit, 13.4 sec in the quarter mile.

Theres an older video that Cunningham BMWs Jeff Gerkin made of the La Carrea Classic road race. If you watch this video you will have a good view from the drivers seat of what a stock M6 can do. I have been on the track with Jeff and a ride with him is way past E ticket. The M6 came in 2nd overall amoung a group of about 180 of the fastest cars in the world. EVERY m arque was well represented.

[dreeves]

1. 255km/h = 158mph.

2. I think M6s are wonderful cars, and I would love to own one.

3. If you look at the graph in the image you posted, you might notice that the M635CSi is limited more by its gearing than by electronics. Based on your numbers, its theoretical top speed is 159mph. If you want to find out more, please see http://www.mysportscar.com/tools/topspeed.htm

4. This still doesn't really have anything to do with handling.

[dreeves]

mmm... I agree!

And coming from the other side, I feel the same way about the 911. That's why I have one coming tomorrow :-)

[snowman]

Originally posted by dreeves
1. 255km/h = 158mph.

2. I think M6s are wonderful cars, and I would love to own one.

3. If you look at the graph in the image you posted, you might notice that the M635CSi is limited more by its gearing than by electronics. Based on your numbers, its theoretical top speed is 159mph. If you want to find out more, please see http://www.mysportscar.com/tools/topspeed.htm

4. This still doesn't really have anything to do with handling.

Thats where the 1 G corners with a cup of coffie in one hand comes in. With good rubber, ie R compound rubber the car does 1 G easily, and is equally controllable. An aquatinance of mine, who is also a famous race car driver, who used to race Corvetts, as a profession and big time winner, first told me the difference between a say Corvette and BMW, ie a Corvette does 1 G corners, with all your attention, but a BMW does it while allowing you to drink your coffie.

[swinborne]

When I was a tike the crazy-must-have BMW was an M1...damn sexy!

...if I wasn't on the lookout for a 911 right now the car I would be after would definitely be a 1973 3.0 csi!

[speeder]

Jack, (Snowman), A BMW M6 is undeniably a beautiful car, and a great performer for its era, (and considering its heft). I used to know a guy w/ a turbo-ed M6 that really flew. You don't need to BS about the car, it's a great car.

I have a challenge for you: Bring it out to Willow Springs for the next Open Track event, we'll give you a 3/4-full cup of scalding hot mud w/ no lid, check your ride for hidden cup holders or a coffee dispenser to refill the cup with, (cause I'm sure as hell not going to ride along while you win this bet), , then you go out and crank off a couple of ~1:30 laps. This should put you near ~1G somewhere on the track, and driving w/ one hand of course since the other is holding the boiling mud.

If you return w/ all of the coffee still in the cup and decent lap time, (let's say under 1:35 to make this easy), I'll pay you $1,000 in U.S. cash. If the coffee is on your nuts or the passenger floor, $1G to me. Plus the loser has to apologise profusely on this BBS for either doubting your word or pulling our dicks, (as the case may be). What do you say?

[masraum]

Awesome!!

[djmcmath]

I like the track/coffee bet -- good plan. Better idea, though -- why don't we all just drop trousers and measure arbritrary portions of our anatomy? That'd be a good bit simpler, cheaper, and reduces the odds of hot java ending up someplace unfortunate.

In all seriousness, I'll admit to being somewhat illiterate. I'm picturing "BMW" and seeing a box with rounded corners so it's modern and stylish, and am not seeing in my mental image this "M6" of great beauty of which you speak. Would one of the M6 lovers please post a pic or two, so the unwashed masses (ie me) know what we're talking about? Thanks.

Dan

[dreeves]

Originally posted by djmcmath

In all seriousness, I'll admit to being somewhat illiterate. I'm picturing "BMW" and seeing a box with rounded corners so it's modern and stylish, and am not seeing in my mental image this "M6" of great beauty of which you speak. Would one of the M6 lovers please post a pic or two, so the unwashed masses (ie me) know what we're talking about?

Here's one:

[}{arlequin]

the classic lines, subtle chrome trim, 2 seats and a cooler in the back, "shark nose"....... and best of all, that inline engine w/ individual throttle bodies, the set up and power that the pathetic E36 (US version) couldn't even match years later. great car.

hey Dave, where in Cambridge are you? I used to hang out all the time in Davis Sq. and up and down Mass Ave. I go back ab. once a month.

[dreeves]

.
hey Dave, where in Cambridge are you? I used to hang out all the time in Davis Sq. and up and down Mass Ave. I go back ab. once a month. [/B]

Between Central sq and the river.... just off pearl street. Let me know if you're in town.

[JeremyD]

Man you guys will discuss/argue anything.

[ben@benlovejoy.]

This has to be a troll. As Dave pointed out, 255kph is 158mph (actually, I make it just over 159mph which was probably quoted as 160mph at the time). No-one who owned the car could confuse the two.

Ben