Cornering, handling and the 911

[Sonic dB]

I know that this is kind of a general post...but after two days driving around in the 2004 Chevy Cavalier rental car... I felt like I had slipped behind the wheel of an F1 racer once I got my 911 back. The difference was like trying to balance on a slab of jello (Cavalier) to tap dancing on solid rock (Porsche).

More than anything, THIS is why I love this car. It simply handles better than any other car that I have driven....and I used to drive a lot of street cars back in the day, so I have a few to compare to.

Specifically, what is it that makes these cars so unique in their handling? How much is attributed to the weight distribution on the 911...? What suspension components set these aside from other road cars?

[singpilot]

Does that mean (sorry, I've been away in Africa) that your 911 was repaired? What was done?

Every time I'm in a rantal car, either here or abroad, it is sooooooo nice to come home and drive home in my p-car.

[lateapex911]

Well, the 911 is unique in nearly all of automobiledom. The steering is probably the best of any mainstrean car. That's due to the weight distribution, the components utilized, and the geometry.

In terms of pure handling, I think there are plenty of better handling cars. The Miata comes to mind. On a track the Miata reads your mind. A little hot in the corner and its running a bit wide? Ease off the throttle for a split second and it tightens it's line nicely. A telepathic car.

The 911 has a few surprises up it's sleeve and isn't the best handling car relative to others.

I think that you are possibly referring to the overall 911 dynamic, which is the result of several factors, weight distribution among them. A short wheelbase makes it agile, but the great spring/shock package, coupled with the overall geometry, (roll centers, etc...) work together to make it one of the best drivers cars ever. As long as you know the dance, you can really make it fly.

[Zeke]

I agree with everything Jake says, However, I do think the 911 is the best handling car not necessarily in predictability in the corner, but just plain following the road surface. There is somthing about the torsion bars and highly biased shocks designed for these cars that handle bumps better that anything I've driven. Why is it you can go over speed bumps in a Porsche or air cooled VW at twice the speed of any other car. I wizz over these things at 15 MPH while anything over 5 throws the tools out of my truck and into the street. The Boxster is somewhere in between. The fast compression and slow rebound is unique and I think it delivers an exceptional ride quality. That to me, is all part of handling

[Sonic dB]

Good insight fellas. The day after I got my car back, I was crusing at about 80 in the left hand lane, started to get over into the center lane and lo and behold, a chunk of california metal freeway crap was directly in the path of my front passenger wheel.... I quickly jerked the wheel back hard to the left to avoid the chunk, the car bucked left hard, and then I made my cut back right over to the center lane...it was like Barry Sanders at 80 mph... no way a typical car could have handled that move as smoothly.

singpilot...I had the rear valance replaced and bumper repainted at Kevins shop in Van Nuys.

[ChrisBennet]

I think the lack of power steering probably is one reason the steering on a (pre-964 at least) 911 feels so direct.
-Chris

[Early_S_Man]

Well, if you think a Miata handles so perfectly ... throw away 1000+ lbs, then you have a '66 Lotus Elan, and REAL agility and handling!!! That's down in the 550 Spyder weight class, and no current production ricer even comes close!

[lateapex911]

You know Warren, I thought of using the Elan (and a few others) as my example, but thought better of it due to the Miatas huge infiltration. 1 American in 100 is familiar with the Elan, while ten in a hundred have probably driven the Miata!

[Early_S_Man]

Jake,

Well, when you are listing cars in the 1400 lb weight class ... it is a pretty short list, and the 550, 904, and Elan all make it! Up a couple of notches are the 356A Speedsters and Mini Coopers, both of which can eat most Miata lunches, too!

Never exactly production status ... but VW-based dune buggies fit in the Elan weight class, too, and I have seen a few that took FTOD at autocrosses regularly!

[Schrup]

I got my car out of the garage yesterday & drove it for the first time in 4 months after changing the entire suspension. It needs an alignment & corner balance, so everthing is discombobulated. That being said, I feel absolutely conected to the road. I took a corner a little fast with cold tires & was able to catch it with a flick of the responsive steering wheel. Can't wait to get everything sorted out.

[Randy Webb]

I think Jake has it right -- the 911 suspension is quite primitive by modern standards, but does feel alive. My Boxster could just wipe out both my early 70's 911s on a twisty and bumpy road and with little drama. I used this same "test track" over and over again, rotating thru the 3 cars (when I had all of them at the same time). Yet, as good as it was, the Boxster felt a little less exciting.

[rich22]

Bah! Elans are overweight pigs compared to a Lotus 7.

[no substitute]

I remember the Elan very well, but don't recall the power unit and output?

[Lukesportsman]

Elan's were powered by the Lotus tuned Ford Twink. They are a pricey little jewel much like the boxter to rebuild. They were impressive for their time much like the Alfa's 4, but pail compared to VTec's or Duratec's of today. They can be tuned to about 200hp for vintage racing and they will make a many of a car look down right piggish in a corner. It is a beautiful thing watching a little Elan go outside in a corner and pass a much more powerful car. Love watching Elans race! Would hate to get hit on the street in an Elan so I came back to steel cars.

[Matt Holcomb]

Another significant factor is an exceptionally low center of gravity.

[jyl]

Good topic.

When you think about it, the pre-964 911 is a pretty elemental car compared to >95% of the street cars out there (and certainly any rental fleet car). Relatively light. Good power, for the weight. Great traction (to a point), with all that rear bias pressing the rear tires into the pavement. Low center of gravity. Short wheelbase. Manual steering and a light, responsive front end. Suspension tuned more for than a plush ride. Upright fenders that visually place the car on the road. No-distractions interior. Plenty of engine, gearbox and road sound for feedback. And, of course, refined for 20+ years by obsessive German engineers to excel in almost every form of auto racing as well as the curvy roads, bumpy surfaces, and no-limit autobahns of Europe. So, hey, it had better handle better at 7/10s than anything most of us have driven.

I love the way my 911 feels too. Now, I think I'd enjoy driving a Caterham Super 7 as much or more. But I can buy the 911 for a reasonable price, use it in all weather and all traffic, carry the family, and after 150K miles and 15 years that high-quality German construction still looks great. Boy, we are lucky.

[snowman]

YOUALL haen't driven a BMW have you? Especially an M6, M5, or M3. Even the big 7 series handles exceptionally well, how well, well with the BMW you can drink a cup of coffie in one hand while doing 1 G corners, try that with a Porsche.

And I have 3 Porsches, 2 BMWs, an MB, and even a GMC Denali pickup.

[Randy Webb]

"exceptionally low center of gravity"

How low is it? I've never seen any data. We might expect it to be low (dry sump, boxer engine) but the numbers tell the truth.

[surflvr911sc]

I will agree that the BMW is a great car, I own one (the wife’s actually) but I’ll take the 911 any day. The BMW has good power, great handling, brakes, even road feel, but my 20+ year older 911 spanks its ass in the fun category. In the performance category it would be close if I had the stock engine, but in my experience (3 series) the 20 year old 911 still wins out.

After having the car down for 3 months for the engine conversion, I felt like I was in a go-cart just driving it down the street at 10 mph. It still feels that way, even at 100+ mph.

[snowman]

Well My M6, and even the 633 I used to have is an E ticket ride, no comparason to a 3 series. And the 7 series, big, huge, comfort for 5 plus people, with AC going, Fully loaded with 5 people, ON THE RACE TRACK, felt like a 911 with one person aboard. I LOVE Porsches, but BMW KICKS BUTT, is TOTALLY AWSOME, at least in their higher end cars. I mean, think about this, you take a basic 4 door, car, with 5 passengers in it, and its capable of beating a 911, on the race track!! JUST DOWNRIGHT AWESOME! And thats with the AC turned ON. We arn't talking about a typical Cadillac sled, we are talking about a Street car, with 5 people, that can CRUSE at 150MPH ALL DAY LONG. JUST AWESOME!!