Unfair Business Practices CCR/Custom Crankshaft repair

[Thorshammer]

Let me first say that I am a very patient man. I have been in motorsports for well over 25 years. My background is in IMSA, SCCA, AMA, FIM World Superbike and FIM GP racing. I include this information so you may properly judge that I have not fallen off the turnip truck yesterday and am experienced and reasonable.

I must warn all of my fellow Porsche owners of the business practices of Armando Arroyo JR. DBA as CCR/ Custom Crankshaft Repair. 612 So Railroad Ave. San Mateo, CA 94401 650-364-1747/650-342-0568.

Many of you know I asked for help from fellow members to exert some influence on my behalf about two months ago. I appreciate all of your efforts, but this matter has not been resolved.

On November 12th 2003 I sent a 2.0 liter "S" 911 crank to CCR to be race prepped. Magnafluxed, turn rod journals, Nitrided, lightened and Balanced, and cross drilled. Cost Quoted was 650.00. Contact with Armando 1st week in December, the crank passed magnaflux and inspection, the work was agreed on and would begin.

Jan 10, Armando called and the crank was done and the bill was 865.00 with 3 day shipping. We discussed the change in price, but he seemed reasonable. What the heck, I needed the crank. Sent 865.00 check to Armando via Express Mail, the check cleared my bank on 1/26/04.

Feb 10, 2004 I call him, has'nt had a chance to ship it out. Said he would 3 day shipping (which I paid for already). Feb 20, I call and left a message, no call back. Finally reach him on March 3 he gives me a tracking number and says the side clearance on number two journal is excessive and to check it when I receive the crank. (WTF over did'nt he inspect the F---ing thing in November Was'nt I told it was done for two months at this point, now it has a problem with the side clearance) . I waited 3 more days and checked the tracking number with UPS, oh so sorry no known tracking number in the UPS system, even called UPS to find out if they had anything picked up from his address and being shipped to mine, NO!.

Since March 3 I have left several messages, no response. Two separate individuals have stopped by his place to inquire about the crank. One person held what was supposed to be my crank in his hands half completed, with a promise that it would be shipped 2 days later next day air shipping (April 6th 2004)
Guess what? No crank.

I am cranky and crankless at this point and starting the laborious process of the legal system. My race motor sits without a major piece that I have paid for. And the season has started without me.

BEWARE of this business and it's practices, the owner lies, commits fraud, and steals from his customers. I emplore you to find an alternative crank grinder.

On another note, does anyone have a running 2.2-2.4 liter 6 for sale or a 2.0 "S" crank from which I can start again.

Thanks for your time reading this, Maybe I saved you from the experience


Erik Madsen
Lakeville, MA

[Danskman]

Sorry to hear about this, Erik. Obviously this guy has zero integrity and is very unethical. At this point, I would go the legal route too. It's MAY for crying out loud!

[Randy Webb]

Calif. has a very strong business practices act. Given those facts, he will be saying ouch. That doesn't really help your crankless condition tho. IF you make money from racing then your lawyer can add additional claims -- mention that. Good luck.

[911ctS]

I too have done business with Armando. He does very good work but has a reputation for circumstances just as you described above. Believe me, we've had our fair share of problems with his procrastination (sp) on our cranks. However we have never lost one to him before, just waited a really long time. I think he's the type of guy that you can not pre pay. Trust me, he'll bang that thing out if he needs the money, but if he's already spent the $$ then its the last thing on his list. Been there, done that.

[yelcab1]

He flies to far out places to play golf. Took him 1 week to even check my crank, and he promises the next day. No thanks, I have another grinder in the area that will do it for $125. Armando will always do the full tilt for extra cash.

[Kurt B]

Holy ***** that's annoying. The part that gets me is you send money, on jan 10th, and a month later on feb 10th, you hear, 'didn't have a chance to ship it?'
HUH?
'Didn't have a chance to ship it' is what you say on Monday morning when it was supposed to be out the previous Friday afternoon.

Good luck, and this WILL have an impact. The p-car community is small. Maybe people who actually meet their obligations professionally should start taking night classes at the local trade center and learn how to do this stuff. I'm serious too.

[Wayne 962]

That's too bad. Any early counter-weighted 66mm crank should work for your application...

Good luck with the legal route...

-Wayne

[competentone]

Originally posted by Thorshammer
... the owner lies, commits fraud, and steals from his customers.

Erik,

I'm not a lawyer, but know enough about "libel/slander" lawsuits to suggest that you delete the above from your post. If you stick to your explanations of events--essentially all the rest of your post--you're probably pretty safe, but that line could get you in trouble.

When you start using words like "fraud" and "steals"--which describe criminal acts, you are drawing conclusions which can be more difficult to demonstrate as being factually true. If you have evidence that the owner has been convicted in a court of law for fraud or stealing, you'd be OK, but all you have described in your post is a failure to honor a contract--such an action is not normally considered to be "criminal" in nature. Restitution that you may seek will be through the civil court system--unless you bring the issue to the attention of local prosecutors and they determine that there is a pattern of this behavior by this owner which could indicate "criminal intent" when he took your money. It would then be their job to bring charges against him.

Right now, he could be considered to be just a "very sloppy" business person--and you have every right to express/describe you dissatisfaction with his service, and even explain how you are suing him if you pursue that route--but when stating the above you are probably openning yourself up to a countersuit for effectively saying he is a criminal--when he may never have been convicted of any crime.

--Joe

If you decide to edit out your comment--I'll edit this post to eliminate it in the quote.

[dhoward]

IMO he has stolen Thors money AND his crank! Plain and simple. Thor gave him money to provide a service and it wasn't performed. Why is it people *******foot around with sitautions like this? He advertises to perform this service and then does not. I would consider that fraud.
I guess some people don't mind being victims.

[competentone]

Originally posted by dhoward
IMO he has stolen Thors money AND his crank! Plain and simple.... .... I would consider that fraud.

Unfortunately the law is not always "plain and simple."

Your opinion (or mine for that matter--which is not really different than yours) doesn't matter here. There are specific legal definitions for certain terms and using such terms in a "public forum" while describing someone elses behavior can have legal implications.

I'm not saying that this guy would be successful with any "libel/slander" suit/counter-suit he brought against Erik; I'm just saying Erik's words could make things more "complicated." It's "safer" to just stick to a description of "the facts" than offer "opinions" about the general character of a person.

--Joe

[Wavey]

On the other hand, doesn't a guy like this make you want to buy a plane ticket just for the pleasure of breaking his nose in person? Don't even identify yourself, just drive up, find the guy, break his nose and leave.

[dhoward]

Doh! Wavey!
Now if this guy falls down the stairs and breaks his nose, They'll be after YOU!!!

[stomachmonkey]

I was once "slandered". Local paper printed an article mentioning me. They put in print some things that were simply not true in any way shape or form.

Was so pissed I went straight to my lawyer to sue.

Lawyer told me that in addition to proving they got the facts wrong that I'd have to prove that it hurt my reputation AND that I had lost income as a result of it.

Besides, if this guy is truly to lazy to get the work done I highly doubt he'd have the motivation to sue, especially since you are telling the truth and have a canceled check to prove it.

Go see your lawyer.

Scott

[Wavey]

Originally posted by dhoward
Doh! Wavey!
Now if this guy falls down the stairs and breaks his nose, They'll be after YOU!!!

In the words of Robert DeNiro, "Hey, I'm just sayin', tings happen, you know?" : >

[TerryH]

Small claims court. Don't feed the lawyers.

[ErVikingo]

This s_cks. I've never dealt with him and had my work done at Ollies no problems (2 liter race aplication also).

I did had a problem buying a crank from CDESJARNYC from this board. I paid him over a year ago and still no crank....

I ended up buying a couple of cranks at Carquip. I have a 2 liter crank I can sell you. It is a 10/10 (according to my mechanic). Let me know if this works for you. PM me or email me at ErVikingo@hotmail.com

Best luck next time around! Juan

[Vintage911Racer]

Erik, sorry to hear of your misfortunes. What an A$$. Try calling Becks Independant Porsche in Phoenix AZ. He builds most of the 2.0L race cars that race in our club. Great guy and knows his stuff. I am sure he can get you rolling again.

When you call, ask For Frank, 1 602 997-6572

[Thorshammer]

Thanks Guys.

Guess What. Got a call from Armando Last night on my voice mail, says the crank is done but to check the side clearances when I get it?? Same story different day.

On a legal note, to prove libel or slander, proof has to be made that what I have posted or said is inaccurate, I stand behind my words completely. I do agree you have to watch what you post and or say. But Lie, he has, steal, he has. Are his practices unfair, they are. We'll see if the crank shows up, it will probably be total ****e cause I am busting his butt. But we'll see.

Erik

[on-ramp]

Thorshammer, dont even bother responding, after all the BS he put you thru...

fry his a$$

(competentone, you sure you're not a lawyer?)

[tiorio]

I hate people like this. In fact I hate quite a lot of the human race right now. Some guy gets ripped off and the fact of the matter is that he'll never get a fraction of what he deserves for his crank, lost time, lawyer fees, more lost time, and tons of aggravation and then to top it all off, more lawyers get involved and we find out he can't even vent his frustration without putting himself at risk!

I'm in a situation where someone (a lawyer) claims we had some sort of verbal agreement for me to sell something to him and I tried to sell it to someone else for more money. He came to me and basically said that even if we went to court and I won, which probably would (his admission not mine), the hassle and money I would loose by having to hold on to the item and then try to resell during and after the legal proceedings wouldn't be worth it. Know what? He's right. So I sell to the lawyer for a fraction of what I could get elsewhere because I can't hold on to this item for another 6 months, I've a kid on the way and she ain't waiting for court proceedings (BTW: it's a very expensive item, see my sig for some idea of what it could be).

Meanwhile people are getting millions because they can't hold a f*cking cup of coffee without spilling all over themselves.

The land of the free? Whoever told you that is your enemy...

(coming down off annoyed and very cynical soapbox now...)

Porsche content of this post? 0.0, sorry!