Anyone use Ti Brake Shields to get more pad life at the track?

[Noel]

I am about to head up to Beaverun for a De event (Near Pittsburgh) and I just installed a set of Ti Shields from Seine Systems (I couldn't fit them in the calipers when the brake pads were new). I usually replace my pads at around 50% since I use them on the track. As such, I got to thinking about extending the life of track brake pads by building up layers of Ti Shields to compensate for pad wear. For example, use two sets of Ti shields when the pads wear enough to fit them in. This would help to prevent the issue of more heat transfering to the fluid as the pads wear. This could save some money buying Pagids or whatever your flavor is.

Any comments?

[beepbeep]

I don't get it? Shields just prevent some of heat going into calipers, pads themselves will still wear at same rate...

You don't need any shields to wear down the pads to the metal.

[Quicksilver]

Actually because a little more heat is held in the pad by the insulation of the shield, I would expect the pad wear to slightly increase.

The fact is that pads and rotors are expendable items. The only way to get better life is to re-engineer the system. Basically you need more heatsink mass (bigger rotor), better pads (better material, thicker, etc), or better cooling (this one isn't very effective).

Wayne

[KobaltBlau]

Originally posted by beepbeep
I don't get it? Shields just prevent some of heat going into calipers, pads themselves will still wear at same rate...

You don't need any shields to wear down the pads to the metal.

My thoughts _exactly_

[911pcars]

"This would help to prevent the issue of more heat transfering to the fluid as the pads wear."

That's the sole purpose of the Ti Brake Shields, to reduce heat transfer to the fluid. If there are other issues with the brake system (pad fade, insufficient rotor cooling, etc.), look at improvements in those areas as well.

Sherwood
SeineSystems.com

[Jack Olsen]

I use them, and have never experienced brake fade. Why are you throwing away your pads halfway through their lifespan? Were you getting fluid boiling from less-than-50% pads?

My advice would be to diligently monitor your pad wear, and not add more than one Ti shield to a caliper.

[MrKJBlue]

Im thinking about those Ti plates but am wondering if its at all possible to split a pack between two cars/owners, as surely they are needed mostly upfront?
and am I right in thinking pad size is the same f/r on a 1983sc

[911pcars]

To clarify, the Ti Brake Shield set includes 4 shields; enough for one axle pair.

MrKJBlue,
Yes, the front and rear pads are the same dimension on an '83 SC. BTW, I see no downside in inserting two shields in back of a single pad. The resultant air gap between the two sheets (slight as it may be), should help reduce the thermal conductivity path between the parts.

I briefly looked into sourcing Ti sheets with an embossed waffle pattern to create an air space boundary layer, but this would have tripled my cost for the already-expensive material.

Sherwood
seinesystems.com

[304065]

Forget titanium.

Get yourself some Castrol SRF brake fluid and Pagid Orange front and rear, this will do it.

[Noel]

I HAVE been getting rid of my pads when there is only 50% left due to fluid fade. I've since installed cooling. However, I was thinking that as the pads wear you are loosing thermal insulation to the caliper. As such, if one Ti shield is good, then two would be better? That was the whole frame of thought.

When do you guys toss your old track pads? What is the wear limit you use as a gauge for replacement?

Thanks again for the advice guys.

[Bill Verburg]

I usually replace my pads at around 50% since I use them on the track.

Good idea!

As such, I got to thinking about extending the life of track brake pads by building up layers of Ti Shields to compensate for pad wear

Interesting idea, that would probably work ok, at least I don't see any major drawbacks.

Why are you throwing away your pads halfway through their lifespan?

The pads themselves are heat shilds, some better than others, the thinner they are the less R factor they provide.

[bigrubberjeep]

Question = would there be any benefit to having a temperature meter on each brake caliper or at least the resevoir?

[Ho Hum 74]

John C,

I hear that Castrol is the stuff. Where is the most reasonable place to get it?

Tristan

[MrKJBlue]

Sorry my bad maths
4 parts=1 axle
I was thinking the pack was for front and rear.

[PeteBrown]

Noel:
Quit using the brakes so much!! With your new suspension you should be cornering at increased speeds and not need the brakes -

All kidding aside, I replace my pads with about 25% or less left on the pad which usually happens on Saturday night during a DE week-end and when I don't trust that I have enough pad for Sunday.

I'm also switching to Motul 600 brake fluid as the ATE Super Blue/Gold creates a soft pad on initial braking thus I often resort to double braking.

[911pcars]

A change in brake fluid may be all that's necessary. Here are some top overall performers from my fluid summary chart:

Brand, DOT spec, Dry spec, Wet spec
Castrol SRF DOT 4
590°F (310°C)/518°F (270°C)

GS610 Brake Fluid DOT 4
610°F (321°C)/421°F (216°C)

Brembo LCF 600+ DOT 4
601°F (316°C)/399°F (204°C)

Motul Racing Brake Fluid 600 DOT 4
594ºF (312ºC)/421°F (216°C)

Wilwood EXP600 Plus DOT 4
633°F (330°C)/417°F (213°C)

Sherwood
I'm not advocating, just reporting the published specs.

[304065]

hear that Castrol is the stuff. Where is the most reasonable place to get it?

Wayne doesn't sell it: I bought mine from www.racerpartswholesale. Google "Castrol SRF," some guys may sell it a few bucks cheaper but you're looking at $70/liter probably.

Do a search here for "gravity bleed," you don't want to be pumping a couple liters of this stuff out using a power bleeder.

[Craig 930 RS]

I have sold the Ti shields from Seine systems - they
do not do a thing for the pad life - but I have found they measurably improve the reduction in fluid boiling. I use them on the 930 brakes on my 79SC - no problems anymore (there were issues, believe it or not!)

Craig
@RS

[chrisp]

thin pads also have a tendency to crack rotors because the heat stays in the rotor..the pad can't dissipate enough.

Not sure how thick the plates you are talking are but is there a risk of the pad (should it be worn almost to the backing plate) falling out of the caliper?

[}{arlequin]

Originally posted by bigrubberjeep
Question = would there be any benefit to having a temperature meter on each brake caliper or at least the resevoir?

I'm sure other places have it as well, but Truechoice sells stickers (similar in concept to the ones you put on an acquarium to monitor water temp) and they also have temp-reactive paint. Each pack of stickers, or paint, has enough different ranges for you to pick which one applies and "apply" it to the caliper. Paint changes color and tells you what temp range your caliper is operating at. (Stickers work the same.)https://secure.vbcomm.net/store/detail.asp?part=CLU5956K16

As far as using stacked Ti shields per caliper, I have one caveat. When you have too many (even two) per each side of the caliper, there is a chance they may end up getting wedged in a funny way. Depending how that happened, you may either not have enough braking force b/c you'll be hindered by the Ti shields, or, the shields will wedge themselves in such a way that when you get off the brake the pads will be prevented from retreating from the rotor surface, thus scoring and overcooking the rotor/pad/caliper anyway.

Search the web for thermal barrier paints and you'll come across applications for the backing plate of the pad. It's ceramic-type based paint that works wonders. I've even thought of using clean backing plates from used up pads for this purpose. I thought that coating them from both sides in such paint would be the solution, but a possibility of a locked up caliper keeps me from experimenting.