Venting air to the trombone cooler part two.

[Jdub]

I have cut the rightside front bellows piece and fabricated a 90degree 3" mouth scoop to direct air to the trombone cooler. The scoop empties the air at the front rightside of the cooler so that ought to help things.

However, I still want to punch a hole in my non-foglight valance to get more air into the rightside fender area, which is typically a dead zone, air-wise. Taking directions from some Pelicanites, I am fabricating a blocking plate that will run horizontally from the valance lower lip directly back to the trombone cooler, mounting on the lowermost hoop curve via a hose clamp. A 2" "flip" to the metal will direct air up the backside of the trombone cooler without interfering with the tire. This blocking piece is in essence a director as it prevents air from emptying under the car and instead forces the air from the hole in the valance (3 or 4", unsure which size to go...) past the trombone cooler.

Other than telling me to shell out the buck for a Carrera cooler, does anyone have any words of wisdom about how else I might force air through the righside inner fender and past the trombone cooler? Would the hole in the valance be more effective if I ducted the stream more directly to the cooler? I cannot make a shroud for the cooler, but can use "necked" semi-rigid plastic ball and socket hose and a rectangular open mouth end (think vacuum cleaner attachment only bigger) to point the air from the valance hole to the cooler. This can be repointed any time since it is very rigid and stays in place once set.

Pics to come - many thanks to those who have labored to understand this Quixotic mission!

Tilting at windmills,
John

PS: What is the horn relocation kit? Anyone have an alternative location for my dual horn setup with the longish trumpets to them?

[k9handler]

buy a Mocal cooler. LOL

You are only going to gain so much with the trombone, as you need to increase the surface area containing the oil and allow the air to cool it better. Have you considered installing the lines from Elephant racing? This will assist you and allow you to keep the trombone if that is what you prefer.

[Jdub]

I understand where you're coming from, but the price is too dear right now, and with winter coming I can save my pennies for the right setup.

For now, I want to experiment and see what I can do. That's why I am continuing on this course.

Many thanks,
John

[k9handler]

JMPRO (I think that's his username) sells a scoop that installs in place of the reflector, this little scoop pulls in pretty good airflow into the space where the cooler is...or you could fab up something similar.

[banjomike]

If you're gonna use a 'hose' to direct air maybe you should direct it at the oil lines running along the top of the wheel well. That way you'll have parrallel flow and you'll get cool air to a greater length of "cooler".

[Craig 930 RS]

Really stick with K9handler's advice - I've been down this road and you are truly (strong words coming....) wasting your time with the trombone cooler -

[mark_d_mcguire]

I'll second the comments, if your car is too hot with the trombone, you will never be able to make it better without replacement.

I tried it all, scoop, holes in the valence, removing turn signal. Nothing worked. Upgraded, never get over 200 now.

Don't know what your budget constraints are, but there is a new carrera cooler for sale on ebay right now, check out Item number: 7920037471.

There is also a used one listed now as well.

Good Luck!

[Paulporsche]

Jdub,

It has always been said that the cooling effect of the trombone system came from the length of the oil line itself that goes to it, not from the cooler per se, which is not much more than just a turnaround to get the oil flowing back.

I applaud your efforts (see motto below). I am just concerned that you might do something to your car, be unhappy w/ the cooling achieved, and then, when you get a better cooler, have mods to the car that don't work w/ the new system.

[Craig 930 RS]

There is quite a bit of turbulent air around a trombone - cooling it pretty much to the max capability of this limited capability setup -

[930 Guy]

How's your oil pressure? If it is low, you may not be getting enough movement of the oil thru the system. If this is a track only car, some racers remove the right headlight and cut a hole into the back of the light bucket. But, you already know the number one fix.

[OZCarrera3]

Jdub,

If budget is a consideration, think about a second hand 28-bar brass oil cooler. I recently fitted one to my car and now temps don't get over 185 around town (used to be 210-220) and 210 when giving it some stick in the mountains (used to be up around 240-250)!

It only coast $AUD400 versus about $AUD1,250 for the Carrera cooler. It also very simple to fit.

[Randy Webb]

YOu are getting a lot of conjecture about the air flow regime that exists there w/o a vent. I rather doubt that anyone has done an eddy correlation, or even measured air speeds. I _doubt_ you are gonig to get any effective increase in cooling -- but maybe so. Take careful measurements and post your results. At worst, you will probably have a better flow regime into which you can insert a better oil "cooler" (exchanger), so I don't think you are wasting your time. Good luck.

[930 Guy]

I will tell you based on my experience how much "air flow" is going to help you cool your car down. As a trial, before I put on my Carrera type cooler, I simply bolted my high speed fan to my trombone cooler. This is a fan that maybe some others have bought that are 6" x 6" and were used an helicopters. Extremely high speed. I noted ZERO difference between with, and with out the fan. ZERO. I also noted the difference, with, and without the fan on my Carrera cooler, 15-20 degrees. You have an elephant coming at you, and you are doing nothing but swatting the flys before they land on his ass.

[Craig 930 RS]

Good, some actual results - the same results as I had.

Ditch the trombone, it is cr*p for your use. The 28 row is a great system while the Carrera really needs air forced - and I mean FORCED - through it to be effective.

That said, I have *2* fans on a Carrera cooler - the standard 6" size (made by SPAL in my case), and a rare 4" SPAL that actually goes behind the headlight bucket! (They are impossible to find.....)

So, yes get the air in there with the future in mind -

[JMPRO]

I have heard it said that the engineers at Porsche had a plan when they put the cooler in the fender. The plan was that while the tire rotates in the fender it creats a vortex of air in a clockwise direction behind the cooler {thrombone or otherwise} causing a low pressure area behind the cooler being sure to cause air to flow from the front to thr back. I have no idea if this was the engineers intention or just the result of trying to find a spot big enough for the cooler although i suspect the former.
Jerry

[Craig 930 RS]

Having worked in the aerospace world for 14 yrs - I suspect both end up being true. IMHO the trombone gets all the air it could possibly ever need - then, the design limits are reached rather quickly (where more air equals no more benefits)

[911pcars]

"The plan was that while the tire rotates in the fender it creats a vortex of air in a clockwise direction."...

Yeah Jerry, but the Porsche engineers were planning on air temperature that was 80ºF, not 100+.

Has anyone said this yet? Drop the trombone and install an oil cooler in its place.

Sherwood

[Craig 930 RS]

Yup, said it 3 posts ago, tough love style:

"Ditch the trombone, it is cr*p for your use."

[Randy Webb]

OK, we now have two anecdotes -- that's actually progress...

Again, if you want to experiment, you go ahead. Post again if you want to know how to measure air flow in this area, and I will try to let you know what to do. I plan to do it sometime when I have spare time for playing around.

The conjecture about the wheel well tire induced wind vortex reminds me of a famous paper by Steven Jay Gould on the Spandrels of San Marcos. The bottom line: the spandrels were already there to support the building -- not for art work. The art work was just done later for "fun". The wheel well was likely an easy space to fit a cooler into - I will admit it is possible that PAG engineers measured or hypothesized on air speeds, but I've never seen this written anywhere. Post the cite if you have. It will be interesting reading.

[JMPRO]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 911pcars
[B]"The plan was that while the tire rotates in the fender it creats a vortex of air in a clockwise direction."...

I read it somewhere, but cannot remember where.
Jerry